What do you think is the absolute human limit of 3BLD?

[randomtypos]

This question is primarily directed towards people who have achieved sub30. I am curious as to what you guys have to say. Do you guys think 5 second memo is possible? 10 second execution? 5-cycles? What is there left to improve? Is it possible to memo edges and corners at the same time?

 

[antoineccantin]

Sub-15 is possible.

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Anything is possible so long as Marcell and Maskow don't stop bld.

 

[Noahaha]

25 second average is probably the best possible, at just over 1.5 seconds per cycle and just under 10 second memo on average. I think people could read the cube in 5-7 seconds on average, but I'm not sure how close memo times will actually get to this. sub-15 official single could probably happen with LOLscramble.

Also, 5-cycles won't be faster since iirc optimal 5-cycles are usually just pairs of 3-cycles cancelled into each other.

Anything is possible so long as Marcell and Maskow don't stop bld.

And don't forget the other Marcin lol.

 

[Czery]

And don't forget the other Marcin lol.

Marcell, Marcin and Marcin.

We need an epic blind showdown between the three of them.

 

[Coolster01]

Marc.... FTW!!!

I said 16:
4 second insane memo
12 second execution

 

[kunparekh18]

Don't forget Noah :3

 

[Noahaha]

Don't forget Noah :3

My execution still has a loooooong way to go lol.

 

[randomtypos]

My execution still has a loooooong way to go lol.

Is it your turn speed or are your cycles not optimal yet?

 

[Noahaha]

Is it your turn speed or are your cycles not optimal yet?

Both. TPS used to be a bigger problem. Now I think the cycles are slowing me down more.

 

[randomtypos]

Both. TPS used to be a bigger problem. Now I think the cycles are slowing me down more.

Hmmm I see. I'm just starting on figuring which edge comms to use.

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

Also, 5-cycles won't be faster since iirc optimal 5-cycles are usually just pairs of 3-cycles cancelled into each other.

Ville once fit in M' U M U' into a solve.

 

[Ollie]

This could be an interesting neuroscience question. It depends on (and relates to) what the upper limits are on how quickly information can be perceived, encoded and recalled (not to mention what the physical limits of dexterity are and the quality of the method used.) When I have time (and can be bothered) I'll look up some studies.

 

[Noahaha]

Ville once fit in M' U M U' into a solve.

Do you think anyone could do this somewhat consistently at the TPS of the fastest people? An easier way to save a cycle might be to incorporate some more freestyle like solving isolated cycles with comms etc.

 

[Ollie]

Do you think anyone could do this somewhat consistently at the TPS of the fastest people? An easier way to save a cycle might be to incorporate some more freestyle like solving isolated cycles with comms etc.

I also wonder how a 'savant' might fare at 3BLD if he/she had the interest. I feel that memorizing huge numbers of 4-move 5-cycles such as M' U M U' in all possible permutations (and beyond) may not be beyond a 'genius.'

 

[sneaklyfox]

Don't forget someone could maybe develop a better and faster BLD method.

 

[Noahaha]

Don't forget someone could maybe develop a better and faster BLD method.

This is something that I have thought a lot about, and perhaps this post will look very stupid in 5 years, but I'm not sure how a faster method could exist.

2 things are fundamentally true about BLD:

1. You have to examine each piece during memo.
2. You have to solve every unsolved piece during execution.

3-style allows you to examine each piece as quickly as you can, and then executes in under 1 piece per second for a fast solver. I really don't see an entirely new method allowing for faster execution but not slower memo. I think the way upwards is to make better use of the techniques we already have. For example, you could occasionally spot easy 5-cycles like Ollie pointed out, or maybe even sometimes solve an edge and corner cycle simultaneously. People could also memorize algs that both twist corners and flip edges or ones that flip/twist pieces while solving parity. Maybe an entirely new method could work, but there are certainly still ways to improve what we have.

 

[hubingjushi]

5.55

 

[CubeRoots]

25 second average is probably the best possible, at just over 1.5 seconds per cycle and just under 10 second memo on average. I think people could read the cube in 5-7 seconds on average, but I'm not sure how close memo times will actually get to this. sub-15 official single could probably happen with LOLscramble.

Also, 5-cycles won't be faster since iirc optimal 5-cycles are usually just pairs of 3-cycles cancelled into each other.



And don't forget the other Marcin lol.

I'm suprised you think 25, I mean, we're almost there now!

 

[Kirjava]

Maybe an entirely new method could work, but there are certainly still ways to improve what we have.

I've had thoughts about a reduction based system. Something like;

Reduce to some given state via some set of steps -> use translation matrix based on exec during steps taken (this table will probably be huge and the biggest issue) to convert initial memo into current state memo. -> X-look reduced state.

You are solving more things then usual with each alg. The matricies are pre traced so to not add an overhead to memo.

This is 1 phase reduction - 2 phase may be more feasible.


Solving methods are so good these days that ideas for completely new ones that could be better become quite abstract.