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Updating Fastest Video for Each Method | Looking for video submissions

Silky

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Apr 5, 2020
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Just curious as to if people would be interested in expanding the Fastest Video for Each Method Page to more than just the 'Big 4'. It be nice to celebrate the diversity of methods out there and show off the potential of said methods (plus it be more convenient to find it in one place). We probably couldn't include every method as there's way too many but maybe using this page as a guideline or leaving it to a community vote.
This is a thread for posting the fastest video for non-big 4 methods. This includes Singles, Average of 5, and Average of 12. Think you can grab the top spot ? Give it a try.


Single: 12.37; @AlphaCuber is awesome
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Average of 5:
Average of 12:
Single: 8.77; @efattah
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Single:
Average of 5:
Average of 12: 14.65; @Tao Yu
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Last edited:

Silky

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Just a quick bump to see if people are interested in linking fastest video for x-method. Would be a good place to compile a list of videos for many different method/events, especially since @Devagio keeps dropping tasty tasty methods.
 

Devagio

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Just a quick bump to see if people are interested in linking fastest video for x-method. Would be a good place to compile a list of videos for many different method/events, especially since @Devagio keeps dropping tasty tasty methods.
Lol
It’s a good idea, though probably too early. Should definitely upload in a month or so.
 

Silky

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I think this is an excellent idea. Both single and average. It would do a lot to show that many different methods have potential.
Absolutely ! I think a big issue when people are choosing a method is that because the can't SEE the potential of a method, they don't think that method is worth learning (a fairy similar discussion is occurring about the Choosing a Speedsolving Method thread) . Hopefully, this thread can encourage people to experiment/stick with less popular/mainstream methods. Maybe it could also lead to some friendly competition to see who can get the fastest solve/average with x-method.

Lol
It’s a good idea, though probably too early. Should definitely upload in a month or so.
I look forward to it, mate !
 

efattah

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Feb 14, 2016
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So what methods are we requesting videos for?
Mehta
LFCL
LEOR
SSC
Waterman
ZBRoux
...?
 

Silky

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Apr 5, 2020
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So what methods are we requesting videos for?
Mehta
LFCL
LEOR
SSC
Waterman
ZBRoux
...?
PCMS, LMCF, Salvia ?, HK ?, Heise ?... I think right now the main goal is just to get submissions in general. We can always go back and weed through stuff if it gets too cluttered/bloated. At that point we can set parameters for method submission so that people will need to pass some threshold (must be sub-x to submit method).

I'd like also to expand this to other events ( megaminx (@GenTheThief) , big cubes, square-1, etc ) but for now let's just focus on 3x3.
This also brings up another concern regarding variants. If we include every variant of every method things get tricky ( CFOP vs FreeFOP vs CFCE vs Cross on Left etc.). The point is to showcase different methods, not necessarily every version of every method. But, as I said before, we really just need to focus on submissions. I'll start cleaning up OP and dig up some stuff off youtube.

We can go and message some people doing quest threads ( @Cubingcubecuber ) and I'll browse through the What Method Do You Use thread to see if i can find some more stuff.
 

Tao Yu

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Curious how you will determine what method a solve is for singles. I have a 8.94 "Heise" solve video that's almost indistinguishable from a Petrus solve except that I did it in a Heise session, and had Heise in my mind when doing the solve. Does that count as Heise? And what happens when steps are skipped?

I feel like you really need fast times to get people interested in experimental methods. I've never seem people get excited about a less known method unless people have been getting sub 7/8 with the method, like in the case of Roux (and maybe ZZ, now that there are some sub 7/8 averages out there). Sub 9/10 just seems not enough, especially considering you can get sub 10 averages using some really crappy methods (e.g. CFTOP and CFOP+4LLL).
Could be good if you could get people to really grind solves so that they can add their videos to the page though.
 

Silky

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Apr 5, 2020
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PCMS, Triangular Francisco, and Hexagonal Francisco?
100%

Curious how you will determine what method a solve is for singles. I have a 8.94 "Heise" solve video that's almost indistinguishable from a Petrus solve except that I did it in a Heise session, and had Heise in my mind when doing the solve. Does that count as Heise? And what happens when steps are skipped?

I feel like you really need fast times to get people interested in experimental methods. I've never seem people get excited about a less known method unless people have been getting sub 7/8 with the method, like in the case of Roux (and maybe ZZ, now that there are some sub 7/8 averages out there). Sub 9/10 just seems not enough, especially considering you can get sub 10 averages using some really crappy methods (e.g. CFTOP and CFOP+4LLL).
Could be good if you could get people to really grind solves so that they can add their videos to the page though.
Maybe require singles to have reconstructions? And let's hope this thread can give some incentive to grind out methods
 

GenTheThief

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I'd like also to expand this to other events ( megaminx (@GenTheThief) , big cubes, square-1, etc ) but for now let's just focus on 3x3.
I haven't been practicing Mega lately so I doubt I'm even sub 1 at this point, but I already have a 52.72 single on my channel if you eventually want that. That's hardly particularly good for me, at least when I was practicing, but hopefully I'll be able to get back into mega when you expand it to other events so that I can post an actually good time.
 

efattah

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Feb 14, 2016
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I would go even further than Tao Yu and say people are so closed minded in general that no video is good enough for them. With Roux, people insisted the method totally sucked until Sean+Kian made finals and Sean made podium at worlds. Regardless, I think the fastest video library is an excellent addition to the limited cubing community that is open minded. After all, top Roux solvers all began learning/practicing Roux when 99% of people insisted that Roux sucked. It's always the same pattern. When I used to be a competitive freediver, people originally set all world records with bifins (standard flippers). I started using a monofin (single fin attached to both feet), and everyone laughed and said it totally sucked and used too much energy, they said it would be impossible to break any record with such a stupid fin. After I broke the world record with the monofin, everyone shut up and today everyone uses monofins. It seems the same in every sport. People want a world record or a world champion, only then will they adopt the method-- at which point all they are really doing is just being copycats, and not pioneers. In the meantime, the open minded people keep doing their thing and developing better methods. It's like that saying, 'everything is always impossible until somebody does it.'
 

Tao Yu

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I think if we're talking about turning points that changed the status of a method, Worlds 2019 wasn't very big compared to when Alex Lau started posting fast times with Roux, and even getting the avg100 UWR. I think it was after that, that we saw people practice Roux with the intention of competing at the world level with it. If the aim is to promote methods, I think that's the next goal that should be aimed for (changing the popular opinion of the method comes later).

people are so closed minded in general that no video is good enough for them
I think it's interesting to look at how this didn't apply to 3-style for 3BLD. I don't think there was one pioneer of 3-style or one world record/world podium that made people switch. It simply became obvious that 3-style was the better method, and people switched. The difference seems to be that 3-style provided a large advantage, and this advantage could be proven easily by people in a short amount of time. With 3x3 sighted methods, the potential advantage for experimental methods is pretty small and takes a large time to prove.
 

efattah

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One of the problems for new method creation is that even as new methods are being created/tested/developed every year, CFOP and Roux are also evolving & improving every year, with a hell of a lot more man-power behind them in terms of 'man-years' or total people x total time invested. 3x3 is now so evolved that it is insanely hard to come up with any method that even matches CFOP or Roux, let alone beats them. Anyone who wants to 'take the plunge' and commit to a different method faces years of backwards progress in terms of slower times, as well as countless hours spent in front of algorithm generators trying to find faster and faster sequences for the same cases they already know. It seems that the community generally does feel that there are better methods than CFOP or Roux, but the sacrifice and commitment is just too much for most cubers. The covid lockdown is actually good for new method creation, since with competitions canceled, more people are willing to take steps backwards for a few months with the hopes of taking steps forward later.
 

Silky

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One of the problems for new method creation is that even as new methods are being created/tested/developed every year, CFOP and Roux are also evolving & improving every year, with a hell of a lot more man-power behind them in terms of 'man-years' or total people x total time invested. 3x3 is now so evolved that it is insanely hard to come up with any method that even matches CFOP or Roux, let alone beats them. Anyone who wants to 'take the plunge' and commit to a different method faces years of backwards progress in terms of slower times, as well as countless hours spent in front of algorithm generators trying to find faster and faster sequences for the same cases they already know. It seems that the community generally does feel that there are better methods than CFOP or Roux, but the sacrifice and commitment is just too much for most cubers. The covid lockdown is actually good for new method creation, since with competitions canceled, more people are willing to take steps backwards for a few months with the hopes of taking steps forward later.
Another big factor is the idea of diminishing returns. The only way to overcome the nature slowing of the rate of progression is to shift the graph which is usually done through education/optimization. There are lots more resource for methods like Roux/CFOP which make it far easier to progress, where learning a new method requires far more analysis/optimization/time investment to progress at a similar rate. Things like quest/progression threads become very useful in that you're able to learn faster and avoid pitfalls ( Waffle's sub-15 Roux guide is something that comes to mind ). This is something I'm really trying to do in my own progression thread. It really becomes a community effort to learn from one another and really tackle the progression of a method as a team.
 

Tao Yu

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Yeah these are some of the reasons I can't bring myself to be very interested in method development anymore. These days I feel like it rarely gets past just proposing different orders of solving the pieces of the cube.

I feel like budding method developers should really look into creating software that makes method exploration more reasonable. One idea I had was some kind of smart cube trainer that can show you the algs you need to know as you're going through a solve. So for example if you invented ZZ-CT, you could test it out without having the know algorithms because the program would detect the TSLE and TTLL cases and automatically show you the alg. Or perhaps, to go further you could invent some kind of smart cube event where the movecount matters as well as time.
 
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I would go even further than Tao Yu and say people are so closed minded in general that no video is good enough for them. With Roux, people insisted the method totally sucked until Sean+Kian made finals and Sean made podium at worlds. Regardless, I think the fastest video library is an excellent addition to the limited cubing community that is open minded. After all, top Roux solvers all began learning/practicing Roux when 99% of people insisted that Roux sucked. It's always the same pattern. When I used to be a competitive freediver, people originally set all world records with bifins (standard flippers). I started using a monofin (single fin attached to both feet), and everyone laughed and said it totally sucked and used too much energy, they said it would be impossible to break any record with such a stupid fin. After I broke the world record with the monofin, everyone shut up and today everyone uses monofins. It seems the same in every sport. People want a world record or a world champion, only then will they adopt the method-- at which point all they are really doing is just being copycats, and not pioneers. In the meantime, the open minded people keep doing their thing and developing better methods. It's like that saying, 'everything is always impossible until somebody does it.'
Nice flex.
 
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