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Trying to learn Full ZBLL

Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
64
I’m so confused you are ignoring everyone who is saying Coll is necessary for ZBLL and I’m going to give you some more advice here: learn Coll
Reason: zbll recognition is based on Coll and they are all zblls anyway also literally everyone who learns zbll learnt Coll first
 

Owen Morrison

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Learning coll is pretty much essential for zbll, every single zbll recognition is based on coll, you see what coll it is and then what the edges look like. Also, every coll is a zbll that you will HAVE to learn anyway. So you can learn zbll in any order you want, but it will only make you slower unless you can recognize them.


Edit: I read this and realized it sounded pretty mean, I am not trying to discourage you from learning zbll, but I want to make sure that you know that zbll won't help you if you can't recognize the cases.
 

OreKehStrah

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May 24, 2019
Messages
125
Does anyone have proof that learning COLL is necessary? I’ve learned a bit of ZBLL already, but I wonder if someone was trained from the start with ZZ and ZBLL if they could be taught to recognize ZB as 5 color PLL. I think if people could retrain themselves to do that kind of recognition, it would benefit their ZBLL
 

OreKehStrah

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May 24, 2019
Messages
125
because im frustrated and even though it is technically a subset of ZBLL it is also a subset of OLLCP which is what I consider it
but at least people will be happy now...
You’re missing the point though. COLL is the standard basis for ZBLL recognition currently. And when you learn COLL, you get 42 free ZBLLs because all you have to do is associate the EP for your given COLL alg. I’m sure there are alternative/better ways to do ZB recognition and if you wanna be the person who tries their own way go ahead, but everyone is trying to tell you the “proven” way to learn ZBLL because, well, it’s the proven way! ZBLL is not something most people can just wake up and decide to learn. It takes a lot of dedication to learn and implement such that it becomes useful
 

BlastKracken7

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You’re missing the point though. COLL is the standard basis for ZBLL recognition currently. And when you learn COLL, you get 42 free ZBLLs because all you have to do is associate the EP for your given COLL alg. I’m sure there are alternative/better ways to do ZB recognition and if you wanna be the person who tries their own way go ahead, but everyone is trying to tell you the “proven” way to learn ZBLL because, well, it’s the proven way! ZBLL is not something most people can just wake up and decide to learn. It takes a lot of dedication to learn and implement such that it becomes useful
im not missing the point. I have been told here that colls are zblls. I get it ive been told over and over. im just tired of hearing it so im just going and doing it so I don't keep getting bugged for it.
 

OreKehStrah

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May 24, 2019
Messages
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im not missing the point. I have been told here that colls are zblls. I get it ive been told over and over. im just tired of hearing it so im just going and doing it so I don't keep getting bugged for it.
I just said that because it sounds like you were gonna just learn ZBLL and skip over COLL. At the end of the day ZBLL is just knowing multiple COLL so you skip EP. either way you’ll end up learning COLL. So it’s generally just better to learn COLL first to get used to corner recognition first and save a little bit of work from every ZBLL set
 

OreKehStrah

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May 24, 2019
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im starting to feel I should've never made this thread and kept my learning a secret...
I think a lot of this is because in the past a lot of people have made big announcements about wanting to learn ZBLL and try to seem flashy and get attention, rather than doing to slightly improve their last layer game, so over time people became more and more critical of people who just announce they’re gonna learn ZBLL. If you’re genuinely in it to win it and really learn and get use out of ZBLL that’s awesome and good luck to you, you just need to keep in mind a lot of people make posts like this kinda as a publicity stunt kind of deal so people are super critical about it. Sorry if I rubbed off in the wrong way btw. I just want to make sure people know just how much it takes to get good at ZBLL because it’s easy and fun to imagine using it vs putting in the hours and hours of work to master it!
 

RedstoneTim

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im starting to feel I should've never made this thread and kept my learning a secret...
When creating a thread, you should always be aware of the fact that there will be people replying. Most people here only want to help, even though it sometimes doesn't seem like it. You'll have to go your own way, though good help from the outside will almost certainly get you to your goal faster.
 

Tao Yu

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From what I can tell, it seems a lot of the frustration from other people in this thread is due to the fact that people are giving reasons to learn COLL first, but you're responding to them by saying you just don't care rather than explaining your logic. It's possible you had a good reason, but we don't know it.

Anyway, I'm just going to ignore all that and say that in my opinion, you don't need to learn COLL before ZBLL. I think people in this thread have given okay reasons to learn COLL first, but haven't proved that there is no good method to learn full ZBLL without learning COLL first.

I don't see anything wrong with learning ZBLL one COLL set at a time, and just learning the recognition for that COLL case as you're learning that set. The only thing that really matters is you learn to recognize the corner case and are able to tell it apart from others, and I can think of ways you can train sets in order to achieve this. For example, you could learn full T, one COLL set at a time, and when you're done T, just train them all together to make sure you're able to tell the corner cases apart.
 

Nilsibert

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People just want to help. There isn‘t any downside to learning COLL first, like none what so ever. Only benefits.
There‘s not a single reason not to go that route, so naturally people will assume you don‘t understand when you say you don‘t want to do it. Nobody is holding you at gunpoint though, so you do you :D
 

BlastKracken7

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I don't see anything wrong with learning ZBLL one COLL set at a time, and just learning the recognition for that COLL case as you're learning that set. The only thing that really matters is you learn to recognize the corner case and are able to tell it apart from others, and I can think of ways you can train sets in order to achieve this. For example, you could learn full T, one COLL set at a time, and when you're done T, just train them all together to make sure you're able to tell the corner cases apart.
That's what I have been doing. bases on my last update about my progress I put a no swap and diag swap for T. I find it easy that way
 
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