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The Roux vs. CFOP debate is getting out of hand

Aerma

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Recently, a lot of threads have been hijacked with debates about which method one should use. It usually starts with a beginner asking for advice—then somebody responds with something along the lines of "use CFOP, it's the best". Other people chime in, either saying "no, use x method" or "use whichever method you enjoy", and an argument starts. I've seen countless threads being hijacked by these debates, even if the thread itself has nothing to do with choosing methods. I've even seen a profile post hijacked at one point.

There are a few people in particular at the center of this debate, and I'll admit that I'm one of them (one the side of "do what's fun"). We're all just trying to do what we think is best, but it's becoming a problem. I've been on the forum for 3 years now (and I've been stalking it for years before), and these kinds of things aren't what the forum is about. I won't go as far as to say it's toxic, but it's certainly something to be addressed, hence why I'm making this thread. Discussion is okay, and so is disagreeing. But what I've been seeing is worse than simple disagreements, and it has to stop.

So, what do I think we should do about it?

Debates about method-choosing should be strictly kept in the appropriate threads. For example, here is a CFOP vs Roux thread. Beginners asking which method they should use should be directed to the Beginner's Guide to Choosing a Speedsolving Method thread with no further discussion in the previous thread. Furthermore, one should not simply tell a beginner to use x method—it will spark another debate, which could dissuade the new user from asking questions in the future.
In addition, any arguments that seem to be getting out of hand should either be abandoned or brought to PMs.

As a side note, I think the new emotes (the "Meh" and "Eyes Up" ones) should go. They serve only as a tool for being passive-aggressive and don't do the forum any good. This note is mostly for @pjk, if he agrees with what I have to say.

I hope we can fix this, as it's become a great annoyance to me and I'm sure many others, and I apologize for my end of the debates.
 
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I think that the emotes can still be useful in certain contexts, and no point in removing them because people could simply reply in a passive-aggressive way instead. Besides that, I agree with what you're saying with regards to thread hijacking.
 
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The problem seems to be the Morrison brothers will not accept any other method other than cfops validity no matter how much evidence they are given. They then go on any member Introduction or method disscussion and instead of Just linking to the choose your method thread like most people they will make a passive aggressive statement along the lines of “if you want to be fast it would be stupid to use roux.”
 

Owen Morrison

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The problem seems to be the Morrison brothers will not accept any other method other than cfops validity no matter how much evidence they are given. They then go on any member Introduction or method disscussion and instead of Just linking to the choose your method thread like most people they will make a passive aggressive statement along the lines of “if you want to be fast it would be stupid to use roux.”
That is all wrong.

I think CFOP is the best method for 3x3, but I don't think other methods are bad. Roux has potential to be equal or almost as good as CFOP for 3x3.

The reason I think other methods are not good is because they aren't very fast for 4x4 and up, I did actually learn Roux and I planned to switch to it but once I realized that it would make me slower at 4x4 then I gave up on it.

Meyer can be used for 4x4 if you use Roux, but I really don't think that has the potential to be just as good as Yau.

So. the reason I recommend CFOP to other cubers is because it is the easiest transition from beginners, but mostly because it is that fastest for other events.

Whenever I say this everyone chimes in saying that Roux is better for feet and OH. First of all, how the heck are you supposed to do M moves with your feet???? Second, the top two OH solvers use CFOP. Roux is better for OH than it is for two handed, but it still hasn't proven to be superior to CFOP.

I don't think it is stupid to learn Roux if you want to be fast, Sean has shown that Roux can be very fast. But it is stupid to learn Roux if you want to be very fast at 4x4 and up.
 

brododragon

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The reason I think other methods are not good is because they aren't very fast for 4x4 and up, I did actually learn Roux and I planned to switch to it but once I realized that it would make me slower at 4x4 then I gave up on it.
It's fine if big cubes are better with CFOP, but that doesn't mean everyone has to use the same method for big cubes and 3x3. What I'm saying is people can use two different methods; They don't have to follow your choices.
 

brododragon

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Hey guys.
This thread is about derailing threads with method arguments.
And you are derailing it with method argument.
I would also like to see a policy that all threads about method superiority should be moved to specific threads.
Agreed. These debates are all off-topic anyway, so there is good reason to move them.
 

Aerma

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The problem seems to be the Morrison brothers will not accept any other method other than cfops validity no matter how much evidence they are given. They then go on any member Introduction or method disscussion and instead of Just linking to the choose your method thread like most people they will make a passive aggressive statement along the lines of “if you want to be fast it would be stupid to use roux.”
I direct people to the method picking thread, and @Owen Morrison and @Micah Morrison keep interfering and angrying my posts and saying CFOP is best and Blah blah. I wish they could just stop and let people look at the thread. They seem to be forgetting that CFOP IS on the thread.
That is all wrong.

I think CFOP is the best method for 3x3, but I don't think other methods are bad. Roux has potential to be equal or almost as good as CFOP for 3x3.

The reason I think other methods are not good is because they aren't very fast for 4x4 and up, I did actually learn Roux and I planned to switch to it but once I realized that it would make me slower at 4x4 then I gave up on it.

Meyer can be used for 4x4 if you use Roux, but I really don't think that has the potential to be just as good as Yau.

So. the reason I recommend CFOP to other cubers is because it is the easiest transition from beginners, but mostly because it is that fastest for other events.

Whenever I say this everyone chimes in saying that Roux is better for feet and OH. First of all, how the heck are you supposed to do M moves with your feet???? Second, the top two OH solvers use CFOP. Roux is better for OH than it is for two handed, but it still hasn't proven to be superior to CFOP.

I don't think it is stupid to learn Roux if you want to be fast, Sean has shown that Roux can be very fast. But it is stupid to learn Roux if you want to be very fast at 4x4 and up.
It's fine if big cubes are better with CFOP, but that doesn't mean everyone has to use the same method for big cubes and 3x3. What I'm saying is people can use two different methods; They don't have to follow your choices.
It takes twice the time to be good at two different methods.
Keep it out of this thread, please. This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I have my own opinions and I'd like for them to be heard too, but we should keep it orderly.

I think that the emotes can still be useful in certain contexts, and no point in removing them because people could simply reply in a passive-aggressive way instead. Besides that, I agree with what you're saying with regards to thread hijacking.
So because people will do it anyway, we should give them the tools to make it easier?
I do agree that they can be useful for legitimate reasons in the right context, but from what I've seen, that's the minority.
 
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I direct people to the method picking thread, and @Owen Morrison and @Micah Morrison keep interfering and angrying my posts and saying CFOP is best and Blah blah. I wish they could just stop and let people look at the thread. They seem to be forgetting that CFOP IS on the thread.
the method picking thread is biased and introduces CFOP in the least enticing way possible. For example, in the "Quotes From the Best" they selected a quote from a CFOP user saying that the only reason he uses CFOP is because he started with it and about how he thinks Roux would be much better.
 
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the method picking thread is biased and introduces CFOP in the least enticing way possible. For example, in the "Quotes From the Best" they selected a quote from a CFOP user slower than me saying that the only reason he uses CFOP is because he started with it and about how he thinks Roux would be much better.
This isn't true. And roux is possibly slightly better for TH.
 

mukerflap

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the method picking thread is biased and introduces CFOP in the least enticing way possible. For example, in the "Quotes From the Best" they selected a quote from a CFOP user saying that the only reason he uses CFOP is because he started with it and about how he thinks Roux would be much better.
the whole cubing youtube is biased towards cfop theres only 1 good roux tutorial channel
 
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