# The FMC thread

#### tseitsei

##### Member
And another good one right after. Same online competition old scramble #380

R' U' F D' R2 U2 F2 L2 F2 D' U' R2 B2 R' D R' B' L2 U L R U2 F2 R' U' F

solve: D' F D B' D2 B2 R' B2 F2 L D2 R2 D2 L F2 L' U' L2 U L' D2 R U2 R2

D' F D B' //DR-4C2E 4/24
(R2 U2 R' D2 L U' L2 U) //DR(2qt) 12/24
(L F2 L) //HTR-4E 15/24
(U2 * L F2 B2 R) //HTR 20/24
(B2 D2) //2E2E 22/24

* = U2 L2 D2 R2 D2 L2 //6-4=2 24/24

EDIT:

And a huge new PB mo3 with 21, 24, 24 = 23.00

Again same competition scramble #379

R' U' F U' R2 F2 U' F2 R2 F2 U2 F2 U L B2 R' D B2 L D L F R' D U' R' U' F

solve: D2 L' U2 F2 R D B2 D2 B2 L' U2 B2 R2 B2 R2 L F2 L' U R' B D2 U F' (24)

(F U' D2 B' R U') //DR-4C4E 6/24
D2 L' U2 F2 R D //DR(3qt) 12/24
(L F2 L *) //1qt from HTR 15/24
(F2 R2 F2 D2 L) //HTR 20/20
(F2 U2 F2) //E-slice(2E2E+centers) 23/24

* = M2 //2-1=1 24/24

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#### guusrs

##### Member
Hi, for first time in 5 years I joined an official WCA comp: Leersum algs at january 5.
There was 1 round of FMC.
I wanted to do my first official DR solve but I failed. I really have to pratice this more.
When I decided to write down a fast comfortable block-building solve also I failed (DNF)
I made too may writing errors which took me too long to repair.
Seemed to be a tough scramble. From 50+ competitors there was only one sub 30 solve, Mattheo de Wit with 28 moves. He used a kind of DR solve but ended up with corner insertions.
At home things went easy, found a unexpected 21 move solve.
It is an almost lineair solve, as continuation of my 5 move 2x2x2 block I found during the competition.
scramble: R' U' F D' F2 R2 B2 F2 L F2 L U' R2 U2 L2 F2 R2 F D B2 R' U' F

My when-I-arrived-at-home-solve:
pre-move: [D2] F2. U' L' B (5, 222 block) F2 was an inserted move for better continuation.
B' F2 U F U' B (9, 223 block)
F R F' (12, 3 more pairs)
R2 F2 R F2 R' (17, pairing up)
F' U' R2 U (easy finish)
could have been a big PB (which is still 25 moves).
I wonder if someone can beat this using a DR technique.

#### xyzzy

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
26.00 mean from a while ago:

Scramble:
U R2 U' R' F' L2 D U' F' R' D2 L2 D' L U2 B' F' U

Final solution (25):
L U' F' U L2 D' B D' B' D2
L B' U L' U D B2 U B2 U2
F' U F2 B D

@ B' U L' // EO, lots of blocks (3/3)
U D // square + pseudoblocks (2/5)
B2 U B2 U2 F' U // Roux blocks (??) (6/11)
B F2 D // ab2c2e (3/14)
@ = L U' F' U L2 D' B D' B' D2 L // J perm setup (11-1/25)

Some people got 19s from this EO (switch to inverse then there's easy 7+2 DR or something like that).
Scramble:
L F D L2 D U' B' U2 F' L' D' R' U' R U L' F2

Final solution (26):
D F U' R2 B U R2 U2 D2 F2
D' R B R' D F2 D' R B' D
L R B2 U2 B2 L2

D F U' R2 B // EO (5/5)
U // 3c2e (1/6)
R2 U2 D R @ D // DR (5/11)
L R B2 U2 B2 L2 // ab2c2c (6/17)
@ = R' D F2 D' R B R' D F2 D' R B' // fin (12-3/26)
Scramble:
B L D2 F D2 B R2 F L2 D' U' B' U' F D' U L' U2

Final solution (27):
U F B D L2 U2 D' L U L
U' L2 U L2 U F2 B2 D' L2 B2
D2 F2 R' L D2 L' F2

U F B // EO (3/3)
(F2 R) // 3c2e (2/5)
D L2 U2 D' L U L // DR 4c4e 2q (7/12)
U' L2 U // HTR-4e (3/15)
L2 U F2 B2 D' // HTR (5/20)
L2 B2 D2 @ // ab3e (2/23)
@ = F2 R' L D2 L' R // fin (6-2/27)

I actually found a better insertion but I wrote it down wrongly…

[…] L2 U F2 B2 D' // HTR (5/20)
L2 @ B2 D2 // ab3e (2/23)
@ = L2 D2 R2 F2 L2 U2 R2 B2 // fin (8-5/26)
// had the last four moves written as R2 D2 L2 B2, which obviously does not work

#### Cubenovice

##### Forever Slow
Playing around with FMC again after a small break...
Apparently it has been 10 years since I last participated in the weekly comp and FMC in a WCA competition.

Now I'm getting 29-30-ish results in the "old way" but it seems DR has become THE method for consistent low 20 FMC averages.
I better get studying!

Nice to see that @guusrs is still at it too

#### abunickabhi

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Playing around with FMC again after a small break...
Apparently it has been 10 years since I last participated in the weekly comp and FMC in a WCA competition.

Now I'm getting 29-30-ish results in the "old way" but it seems DR has become THE method for consistent low 20 FMC averages.
I better get studying!

Nice to see that @guusrs is still at it too
DR is very cool, you should try it out definitely, it does take a while to get used to it yo!

#### Enirolf

##### Member
Hi, for first time in 5 years I joined an official WCA comp: Leersum algs at january 5.
There was 1 round of FMC.
I wanted to do my first official DR solve but I failed. I really have to pratice this more.
When I decided to write down a fast comfortable block-building solve also I failed (DNF)
I made too may writing errors which took me too long to repair.
Seemed to be a tough scramble. From 50+ competitors there was only one sub 30 solve, Mattheo de Wit with 28 moves. He used a kind of DR solve but ended up with corner insertions.
At home things went easy, found a unexpected 21 move solve.
It is an almost lineair solve, as continuation of my 5 move 2x2x2 block I found during the competition.
scramble: R' U' F D' F2 R2 B2 F2 L F2 L U' R2 U2 L2 F2 R2 F D B2 R' U' F
Oh hi there, I did only see this now, but really unfortunate that dnf at Leersum. Hopefully better results in Hoorn next month.

I actually liked that scramble. I had only done one fmc attempt ever before and that was 42 moves. I found some nice things and got a 33 move solution with my fmc skills (basically just using cfop lol). That's how I unexpectedly got second in fmc. (Also first and only non-pyraminx podium)

(Ik dacht, ik doe het gewoon in het Engels zodat anderen het ook kunnen lezen, mochten ze dat willen)

#### Scherzkeks

##### Member
Hi everyone, do you have tips for time management in FMC? I often get stuck somewhere in the attempt and most of the time I end up not finishing it (in time, or not even at all), especially since I started to use DR/HTR. I'm almost sub 30, but only when i finish the attempt...
At what point do you decide to go back and try something else?

#### Celeritardum

Hi everyone, do you have tips for time management in FMC? I often get stuck somewhere in the attempt and most of the time I end up not finishing it (in time, or not even at all), especially since I started to use DR/HTR. I'm almost sub 30, but only when i finish the attempt...
At what point do you decide to go back and try something else?
I don't use DR, but I have some time management that I loosely stick to. I start by looking for a good first 8 or so moves in the first 5-10 minutes, and then start going through solutions over and over to the 30 minute mark, where I will write down what F2L-1 or free block solutions I think are the best. From there I will try to see if I can improve any of my solutions. At around the last 20 minutes I will start looking through different finishes for my solutions, and then I will write down my best solution at around 5 minutes left. Keep in mind that deciding whether to go through many solutions one step at a time like this or going through 1 solution every minute or so and noting the best ones depends on your method, your goals, and what works for you. I think that it is probably best to use the step method for DR/HTR solves, but I am far, far from a professional. I also am not quite sub-30 and just wanted to dump my thoughts. Thank you!

#### SkewbIsTheBestEvent

##### Member
Hi everyone, do you have tips for time management in FMC? I often get stuck somewhere in the attempt and most of the time I end up not finishing it (in time, or not even at all), especially since I started to use DR/HTR. I'm almost sub 30, but only when i finish the attempt...
At what point do you decide to go back and try something else?
Honestly, it just comes down to practice...
I'd recommend spending 10 minutes for EO, as EO's are really important.
Then, I would spend 20 minutes finding DR's. This might seem really short but with practice you will be able to easily eliminate EO's that aren't good, so you'll finish faster.
Then I would spend 15/20 minutes for HTR.
(Again, with practice, you'll get faster.)
Then I would spend 5 to 10 minutes finding an HTR finish, and then I would write down a solution and check it a few times.

I would recommend doing a lot of untimed FMC before switching to 1 hour.

#### Scherzkeks

##### Member
Thank you for your tips!
I just got a 19! It only took me about 5 hours (including dinner and other breaks), but still. Hopefully next time I'll be faster
I must admit, I got a bit lucky here and there

Scramble: F2 R' D2 F R2 F' R2 B' L2 U2 L2 U F U' B U' R' D'

U2 F // EO (2/2)
D // setup for DR (1/3)
(D2 R L2 U' L2 U') // DR (6/9)
B2 R' (L U2 R' B2 R2 U2 L) // HTR (9/18)
(D2 @L2) //3E (2/20)

@D2 L' R F2 L R' (6-7)

Solution:
U2 F D B2 L F2 R' U2 R2 B2 R U2 L' U L2 U L2 R' D2 (19)

Looking back at it I could easily have found the finish instead of doing an insertion, but anyway

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#### Imsoosm

##### Member
Started dabbing in FMC again, and I just learned insertions after I've gotten a reasonably well understanding of commutators and how they work. I decided to try implementing insertions into an FMC solve for the first time (trying to do it in an hour)

Here's the scramble : R' U' F R F D2 R2 U2 L2 F2 D' R2 B2 L2 F2 U2 R2 B' U B' D2 L' D2 B2 R' U' F

and here's the skeleton I found:
(F U' F2 D' U2 B2) // 222
F2 L F L2 // 223
D F' R' D R // F2L-1
F D F2 D' // skeleton

which written out is F2 L F L2 D F' R' D R F D F2 D' B2 U2 D F2 U F'.

Insertions were pretty mid but I didn't have a lot of time left, I came up with

F2 L F L2 ^ D F' R' D R F D F2 D' B2 U2 D F2 U F'

^: L2 B2 * U' F' U B2 U' F U L2
*: B R' F' R B' R' F R

which makes the final solution:

F2 L F B' R' F' R B' R' F R U' F' U B2 U' F U L2 D F' R' D R F D F2 D' B2 U2 D F2 U F' (34 HTM), concluding my first ever FMC solve with insertions.

Conclusion and afterthoughts:
This solve wasnt as good as I expected, but mainly because I'm still not very familiarized with insertions and such. I'm sure with more time I could've found a shorter solution. But, I think insertions can bring me pretty consistent solutions, and I'll make sure to be learning more insertion and skeleton techniques (corners and edges maybe). Meanwhile, I'll be working towards my first sub30 single!

#### Imsoosm

##### Member
Meanwhile, I'll be working towards my first sub30 single!
Okay, so I finished that mo3 with a 35.67 mean. The next two solves were meh insertion-wise (they were done with ZBLL).

Here are the recons:
Scram: R' U' F U' R U2 R L2 D' F' U L F2 U' R2 U' R2 F2 L2 D L2 D' R2 D' R' U' F

L' U D' B U' D R U' R B2 R // 223 (11/11)
L' B' L2 B D2 L2 D2 // F2L-1 (7/18)
(B' L' B L B' L2 B2 D' B' D) // F2L (10/28)
(D L D' L D L' D' L D L2 D') // ZBLL (11/39)

Sol: L' U D' B U' D R U' R B2 R L' B' L2 B D2 L2 D' L2 D' L' D L D' L' D L' D2 B D B2 L B L' B' L B (37)

notes: found a cool skeleton thing in 13 moves but abandoned it cuz idk how to do edge and corner insertions
R2 B2 R D' L2 D2 L2 D2 L D L' D' L // 4c4e (13)
and another variation
R2 B2 R D2 L2 D' L2 D' L D L' D' L D // 4c4e (14)

Scram: R' U' F R U B' L2 B2 U2 R' D2 U2 L D2 L2 F2 R B D' B2 U B' F' D R' U' F

Yeah I don't understand what I wrote on my notebook, but final solution was:

L' R F B' L B' R D L' F D' F' D F' R F B' D' B R B' R' B' D B2 R' B' R2 B R' B D2 B2 F D F' (36)

(i can send photo of my notebook if anyone wants to try and decipher my weird solution)

Right now with insertions, I'm having trouble finding good insertions fast enough. The biggest problem for me right now is deciding on which 3-cycle to check, because with my current knowledge of commutators I don't have enough time to go through all 5 first commutators and run them through the entire skeleton. Is there any method/tip to choose a good commutator to check first?

Oh yeah and does WCA allow you to bring unlimited numbering stickers to comp?

#### Silky

##### Member
Is there any method/tip to choose a good commutator to check first?

I recommend only checking pure com inserts. Worst case scenario is that you get a 8-mover; which is good since you can avoid things like Per Specials in a linear solve. Best case scenario is that you'll get 3+ move cancellation. Average length for corner inserts is 5 moves.

#### Silky

##### Member
@xyzzy Do you have any resources for 4x4 FMC? I'm curious if DR has been attempted on 4x4 vs normal reduction solves + what other techniques have been developed.

#### xyzzy

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
@xyzzy Do you have any resources for 4x4 FMC? I'm curious if DR has been attempted on 4x4 vs normal reduction solves + what other techniques have been developed.
Not really, no.

Far as I can tell, the general strategy for human FMC seems to be:
1. HTR centres and fix wing parity.
2. Fully solve centres and pair up a lot of edges.
3. Pair up the remaining edges (if there are any left).
4. 3×3×3 stage.

For computers there's TPR, which does reduction in three phases (hence, "Three-Phase Reduction"):

1. Two opposite centres (but allow them to be mixed).
2. All centres (but allow opposites to be mixed); FB centres solvable with half turns; wing parity; EO on F-B axis.
3. Finish reduction using ⟨U, D, L, R, F2, B2, Uw2, Rw2, Fw2⟩.

I don't think anyone has figured out how to make this human-usable yet. EO is a lot more complicated because there are now 24 pieces to care about, rather than only 12. (Though now that I'm writing it out, it's always possible to limit the number of bad edges to at most 12 by using premoves.)

#### Silky

##### Member
Not really, no.

Far as I can tell, the general strategy for human FMC seems to be:
1. HTR centres and fix wing parity.
2. Fully solve centres and pair up a lot of edges.
3. Pair up the remaining edges (if there are any left).
4. 3×3×3 stage.

For computers there's TPR, which does reduction in three phases (hence, "Three-Phase Reduction"):

1. Two opposite centres (but allow them to be mixed).
2. All centres (but allow opposites to be mixed); FB centres solvable with half turns; wing parity; EO on F-B axis.
3. Finish reduction using ⟨U, D, L, R, F2, B2, Uw2, Rw2, Fw2⟩.

I don't think anyone has figured out how to make this human-usable yet. EO is a lot more complicated because there are now 24 pieces to care about, rather than only 12. (Though now that I'm writing it out, it's always possible to limit the number of bad edges to at most 12 by using premoves.)

This would be an interesting project to work on. Would also be curious how direct solving methods (K4) or cage methods hold up against pure reduction

#### Silky

##### Member
Bro wants to do this and not pyraminx

Don't own a Pyra anymore. I also hate the way it turns

#### Silky

##### Member
Does anyone know why you are limited to 3 cubes in FMC. Thoughts on if this should change?