Kit Clement

I actually know how NISS works but when I try to do it, I usually end up getting a scrambled cube on the inverse.

To make sure you're not misscrambling, this is what you should do if you want to do NISS here. I'm taking your moves and translating them without the rotation, as rotations make NISS very difficult.

B2 U' D' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 //F2L-1 (11/15)

So now, if you want to switch to the inverse, you start with a solved cube and do your current solution backwards, and then do the inverse scramble:

B2 D' B U' D2 L D2 U' F D' U' B2 D U B2
R' B' L U L' D2 L2 F R B' R' F2 B2 U' L2 D F2 D' R2 U'

We can now continue our work by doing some moves on inverse:

B2 U' D' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 //psF2L-1 (11/15)
(U') //Fix pseudo (1/16)
(L' D2 L) //EO (3/19

Say we wanted to switch back now. We now perform only the moves done on inverse backwards, then the normal scramble, then all of the moves we did on the normal scramble, forwards:

L' D2 L U
U R2 D F2 D' L2 U B2 F2 R B R' F' L2 D2 L U' L' B R
B2 U' D' B2 U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2

And now we can continue with the normal scramble! For the sake of exercise, let's just finish the solve with a standard speedsolving approach so we know how to work with piecing a NISS solve back together.

B2 U' D' B2 //1x2x3 (4/4)
U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 //psF2L-1 (11/15)
(U') //Fix pseudo (1/16)
(L' D2 L) //EO (3/19
D B D B' //F2L (4/23)
B' L B R' B' L' B R //OLL (7/30)
F2 U L' D L' D' L U' F2 R' D R (12/42)

To piece this together as a full solution, we do all the moves done on the normal scramble first, then followed by all of the inverse sequences backwards, starting from the bottom to the top:

B2 U' D' B2 U D F' U D2 L' D2 U B' D B2 D B D B2 L B R' B' L' B R F2 U L' D L' D' L U' F2 R' D R L' D2 L U

And that sequence solves the cube.

Cubing Forever

Member
My 3rd sub 40 ever!!(First one with DR)

Scramble: U2 D2 F2 B2 R D L' B D' F' R2 L2 B' R' F L2 D' U2 R L

U' F' D F U F' R F R' L' D2 L D2 L' //Some DR Blockbuilding
D L B U B' D B U' //DR
F2 B' R2 U' D L2 D //AB5C

skeleton:
U' F' D F U F' R F R' @ L' D2 L D2 L' # D L B U B' D B U' F2 B' R2 U' D L2 D
@ = B2 L' F' L B2 L' F L (cancels 2)
# = L' U' L D L' U L D' (cancels 4)

Final:
U' F' D F U F' R F R' B2 L' F' L B2 L' F D2 L D2 L2 U' L D L' U L2 B U B' D B U' F2 B' R2 U' D L2 D
39 ETM

No. of cancellations: 6

I learnt how to do insertions last week. This is my first solve with insertions.

the dnf master

Member
I did an FMC solve, and I am having trouble with insertions.
Scramble: R' U' F R D L D F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 R2 U2 L' F' D' U' B D B R' U' F
Skeleton: D F R2 B D L' F2 L F D F2 D' F U' R U R2 F R F U' L2 U2 F'
Can someone tell me how optimally solve the last 3 corners? I did one commutator which is L' R U' R' U L U' R U R', but it only works at the end, so I cannot cancel anything. Am I doing something wrong?

Kit Clement

I did an FMC solve, and I am having trouble with insertions.
Scramble: R' U' F R D L D F2 D L2 U2 F2 R2 B2 L2 R2 U2 L' F' D' U' B D B R' U' F
Skeleton: D F R2 B D L' F2 L F D F2 D' F U' R U R2 F R F U' L2 U2 F'
Can someone tell me how optimally solve the last 3 corners? I did one commutator which is L' R U' R' U L U' R U R', but it only works at the end, so I cannot cancel anything. Am I doing something wrong?

With your 3c after doing the 10 mover:

the dnf master

Member

With your 3c after doing the 10 mover:

Thanks, but when I was looking at the cube, I was unable to find that commutator myself while looking at the 5 corner skeleton, and when I did it at the end, it did not work, which is weird since I thought that insertions can work anywhere in the skeleton.

Kit Clement

Thanks, but when I was looking at the cube, I was unable to find that commutator myself while looking at the 5 corner skeleton, and when I did it at the end, it did not work, which is weird since I thought that insertions can work anywhere in the skeleton.

Definitely not. If you could do insertions anywhere in the skeleton for the same effect, then doing R U L would be the same as R L U - if "L" works as an insertion in the R U sequence, then R U L does the same thing if insertions can be done at any point in the skeleton, which is obviously not true. This is because the corners you are trying to insert move around the cube as you walk through the skeleton, so you're solving completely different corners with the same commutator depending on when it is applied in the skeleton.

the dnf master

Member
Definitely not. If you could do insertions anywhere in the skeleton for the same effect, then doing R U L would be the same as R L U - if "L" works as an insertion in the R U sequence, then R U L does the same thing if insertions can be done at any point in the skeleton, which is obviously not true. This is because the corners you are trying to insert move around the cube as you walk through the skeleton, so you're solving completely different corners with the same commutator depending on when it is applied in the skeleton.
Oh ok thanks, that cleared it up for me

the dnf master

Member
I also have a question about pseudo blocks, when you have a premove in both the normal and inverse scramble while doing niss, how do you make it a normal solution?
So essentially I have a scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F U2 L2 B L2 F' R'
For a pseudo 2 by 2 by 2, I do F D’ L R2 F2, and go to the inverse scramble and do an F' to solve the 2 by 2 by 2, then do a B2, and switch to normal scramble to do a B2, solving the 2x2x3, later switching again and do U’ L2 U2 L’ U’ L2, which f2l-1. However, when I try to fuse these into one solution normally, it doesn't work, so what do I do?

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xyzzy

Member
I also have a question about pseudo blocks, when you have a premove in both the normal and inverse scramble while doing niss, how do you make it a normal solution?
So essentially I have a scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F U2 L2 B L2 F' R'
For a pseudo 2 by 2 by 2, I do F D’ L R2 F2, and go to the inverse scramble and do an F' to solve the 2 by 2 by 2, then do a B2, and switch to normal scramble to do a B2, solving the 2x2x3, later switching again and do U’ L2 U2 L’ U’ L2, which f2l-1. However, when I try to fuse these into one solution normally, it doesn't work, so what do I do?
I don't see any pseudo222 after doing F D' L R2 F2, so I'm going to guess you transcribed parts of your solution incorrectly.

Also NISS is a more general version of premoves; you don't need both.

the dnf master

Member
Oh sorry, I forgot to include the last part of the scramble, which is B2 U' R D R2 U' B2 F' R' U' F

Kit Clement

You can't translate back to all normal or all inverse mid-solve and retain the progress you have. When you have just an F2L-1 solved and try to shift your NISS back to the normal scramble entirely, all it will guarantee is that 7 edges and 3 corners are solved, but it won't guarantee them to be arranged in an F2L-1.

the dnf master

Member
So like how do you put together all of the normal and inverse moves to get one solution. I know that you just reverse the inverse moves, but when I have a pseudo block, it doesn't work.
Basically I have a scramble: R' U' F R2 U2 L2 F' D2 R2 F U2 L2 B L2 F' R' B2 U' R D R2 U' B2 F' R' U' F
And here is my solution up to F2l -1:
F D’ L R2 F2//pseudo 2x2x2(5/5)
(F’ B2)//pseudo 2x2x3(2/7)
B2//2x2x3(1/8)
(U’ L2 U2 L’ U’ L2 U’)//F2L-1(7/15)
What I want to do is put this as one solution, but I can't seem to do that without having it mess up.

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Kit Clement

All on normal, you would do F D' L R2 F2 B2 U L2 U L U2 L2 U B2 F, although this won't preserve your F2L-1.

the dnf master

Member
All on normal, you would do F D' L R2 F2 B2 U L2 U L U2 L2 U B2 F, although this won't preserve your F2L-1.
Then how do I use pseudo blocks if I cannot preserve f2l-1 when I make my solution?

Kit Clement

You keep using NISS until you have a skeleton.

ch_ts

Member
Do the following:
U L2 U L U2 L2 U
B2 F
(do the scramble here)
F D' L R2 F2
B2

and you continue from the f2l-1 position.

If your solution you found from there was QQQQQ
then your whole solution would be:
F D' L R2 F2
B2
QQQQQ
U L2 U L U2 L2 U
B2 F

the dnf master

Member
Do the following:
U L2 U L U2 L2 U
B2 F
(do the scramble here)
F D' L R2 F2
B2

and you continue from the f2l-1 position.

If your solution you found from there was QQQQQ
then your whole solution would be:
F D' L R2 F2
B2
QQQQQ
U L2 U L U2 L2 U
B2 F
Thanks, although the skeleton did not look the same, I still had a 5 corner cycle. That is normal, right?

Ok so I finally finished the solve and got a 38, which should have been better if the skeleton was shorter, but I got the worst f2l case afterwards, but anyway here is my solution: F D' R2 L F2 B' L' B' L U' L2 U B L' B' L2 U' L2 U L U L2 U L D' L2 D2 L D R2 D' L' U2 R2 U D' F B2

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Cubing Forever

Member
Yes!!! Another (linear) sub 40!! (first one with ZZ-CT!!)

Scramble: B' U L2 F' L2 D' L' F2 R2 B U2 F2 R' U2 F2 L2 D2 B2 L2 D2

F' L B2 D2 F U F' L2 //p223
B2 D L U' L' B F' L F B' //F2L-1+EO
R' F' L F R F' L' F //TSLE
D U2 R2 B2 U' F2 D L2 B2 D' F2 U2 D' //TTLL

Movecount: 39 HTM

So far I've had sub 40s with 4 methods i.e CFOP, Roux, Mehta and ZZ-CT
(I've had 3 sub 40s with Roux and two of them were for the RMS discord weekly comp. They aren't WCA legal since I used slice moves for LSE but I do count them as PBs.)

any tips anyone??

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Cubing Forever

Member
I got my first NISS solve!!

Scramble: B2 F2 D2 B2 D L2 D B2 L2 U2 L2 U' R' F' U' L' D U' B' F2 U' L2

R' U' R D' R2 F' R' F L2 D//F2L-1
L2 D L D' L D L D' L B' L2 B L' //AB3c2flip (found on inverse)

Skeleton
R' U' R D' R2 F' # R' F L2 D L2 D L D' L D L D' L B' L2 B L'

Insertion:
# D2 R' L B2 R L' (6-2)

Skeleton:
R' U' R D' R2 F' D2 R' L B2 $L' F L2 D L2 D L D' L * D L D' L B' L2 B L' Insertions:$ B' L' F L B L' F' L (8-6)
* L2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 L2 D (8-2)

Final:
R' U' R D' R2 F' D2 R' L B L' F L B L D L2 D L D' L' F2 R2 U R2 F2 L2 D2 L D' L B' L2 B L'

Moves: 35

I just got really lucky with the skeletons and insertions lol
any tips or critiques?

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