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The FMC thread

Sebastien

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Cool, your 2nd attempt's solution is very similar to mine actually :D

Premove: F'
2x2x3: U R' D F' * L R' D' B' D2
switch to Inverse and L3C: F B' D' R' D B R D' R2 D R'

* = F L' F' R' F L F' R

Giving 24 moves.

I found this quite immidiately for your 2x2x3 start:

2x2x3: (F') U R' * F' L D' R' B' D'
F2L-1: R B2 U' B2 U
L3C: R' U R' U' B' R2 B

* = R U' L U R' U' L' U results in a 25 move solution.
 

Cubenovice

Forever Slow
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Thank you for your feedback!

A common OLL alg leaves 3 corners at 23 moves. I guess it will probably beat 31 moves anyway. F U F' R' F R U' R' F' R
When I got this short F2L I was hoping for a lucky OLL but unfortunately I do not know many.
This experience will make me study O.. Nah, that's not going to happen...
IF gives 28 HTM as optimal insertion for your continuation.
I'm pretty sure I would have found that one.

My 4 corners were a 2-2 swap and I hate those, especially under time pressure.
Because of the time I had to settle for a 2-move cancellation early in the solution, check and then work backwards for the 2nd insertion.


I found this quite immidiately for your 2x2x3 start:

2x2x3: (F') U R' * F' L D' R' B' D'
F2L-1: R B2 U' B2 U
L3C: R' U R' U' B' R2 B

* = R U' L U R' U' L' U results in a 25 move solution.
This hurts...
A lot...
 

guusrs

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Messages
682
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1982RAZO01
Hi FMC lovers,

Did anybody beside me notice that we missed an opportunity to set a what-would-be an "all time unbreakable unofficial record"? The FMC #474 scramble was very unusual position that had 15-move solution. The probability that a random scramble can be solved in 15 moves is about 0.2%. Guus was very close (13 moves away) to finding it after he correctly identified 2 pre-moves D2 B2. Not only that, the optimal solution for 474 scramble does not break corner-edge pairs nor does it break new pairs that are put together during the solve. This means that finding this optimal solution was within our reach.
Here is the optimal solution,
D2 L B D' B2 D L' F D2 F D B R2 D2 B2 (15 HTM)

Mirek
woow, no, I did miss that!
No way I came up with R2 as extra (inserted) pre-move. Other options made more sense.
@Tomoaki, logical explanation of given solution doesn't mean they could easily be found.

Good to see you back on this forum Mirek!
Are you still cubing?
So much happening in FMC!

Gus
 
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okayama

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woow, no, I did miss that!
No way I came up with R2 as extra (inserted) pre-move. Other options made more sense.
@Tomoaki, logical explanation of given solution doesn't mean they could easily be found.
I also understand that. I just tried to figure out the solution as a human-like solve, just wondering
about the way how we can find the solution. (didn't intend to say that you should find the solution easily).
I believe that interpretation of the given computer solution is meaningful to expand our FMC ability.
 
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IQubic

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Messages
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I would like to get into FMC, it seems to me to be by far the best thing in cubing so far. I have found Rhanza's FMC videos on cubing world, however those videos or posted once per week and I am impatient. I was wondering if i could get an explanation of Pre-moves and Insertions. Just so that i can get started finding the fewest moves needed to solve various cube scrambles. I understand that if stuck at the beginning of a solve, you can solve the cube and apply the inverse scramble, find a solution, then write down the inverse of the found solution as the official solution to the given scramble.

-IQubic
 

EMI

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I would like to get into FMC, it seems to me to be by far the best thing in cubing so far. I have found Rhanza's FMC videos on cubing world, however those videos or posted once per week and I am impatient. I was wondering if i could get an explanation of Pre-moves and Insertions. Just so that i can get started finding the fewest moves needed to solve various cube scrambles. I understand that if stuck at the beginning of a solve, you can solve the cube and apply the inverse scramble, find a solution, then write down the inverse of the found solution as the official solution to the given scramble.

-IQubic
True. You can also switch in the middle of a solve, just write your solution behind the scramble and perform the inverse of everything. Then you can find new moves, put their inverse in front of the scramble and perform everything again.
The moves in front of the scramble are sometimes called premoves, especially if it is just one or two moves (sometimes trying out different pre moves can be helpful)
Insertions are usually commutators (corner 3-cycles in most cases) that are performed at some point of the rest of the solution. For example, you are left with an A-perm at the end of your solve, but instead of just doing the A-perm, it might be more efficient to perform a different 3-cycle at some earlier point of yur solution, which still swaps the same corners in the same way. If your lucky, you might find insertions that cancel a few moves.
 

guusrs

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Messages
682
Location
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1982RAZO01
FMC Twente Open 16 november 2013

scramble round 1: R' F2 L2 R2 D2 B2 L B' L' D' R' B2 L' B2 F' L F' U2
scramble round 2: L2 U D' R2 B D R D2 F2 R' F' U' L2 U2 D' L2 D B2 U'

results:
1) Erik Akkersdijk DNF 24
2) Sébastien Auroux 27 27
2) Guus Razoux Schultz 29 27

Though competition, happy with my results (-;
 

okayama

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Missed my submission (with a nice result) in FMC476/speed, so here it is:

Scramble: D2 L' D2 U2 L2 U' F L' U F D' B2 U2 L B2 L B U2 L R' B2 D' R B2 U' R2 F' U' B2 L
Solution: B R F L B2 D' R2 B F2 R' F' U' R' U' R' U' R' U R2 B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2 (29 HTM)

1st square: B R
2nd square: F L B2 D' R2
2x2x3 block: B F
Orient edges: F R' F'
F2L minus 1 slot: U' R' U'
Finish F2L: R' U' R' U
All but 2c2e: R2
J-perm: B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2

EDIT: congrats to winners in Twente Open 2013. :)
 

porkynator

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fmc.mustcube.net round 476, no time limit
Scramble: D' U' F' R' U F' B' R' B F D2 F R D L' U' F' U2 L' U' L U' F R2 L' F D' U2 L' R'

Premoves L2 U2 B2
B2 U L F //Lots of blocks (3x2x1 + 2x2x1 + 2 ce pairs), 7 moves in total

Can anyone find a good continuation?
 

guusrs

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1982RAZO01
Don't know why my post for Per's FMC round 476 wasn't accepted: here is my 1-hour solve:

scramble: D' U' F' R' U F' B' R' B F D2 F R D L' U' F' U2 L' U' L U' F R2 L' F D' U2 L' R'
solve: F' D R D B U B2 U2 B R' B L2 B' R B L2 U' L B L B' L' B' L' U' F' U2 (27)
with niss found premoves for inverse scramble:
(U @ B2 U2 B2 U' B' D' R' D' F)
all but 3 corners: U2 F U L B L B L' B' L'
at @ insert L2 B' R' B L2 B' R B, one move cancels
 

Dimeg

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fmc.mustcube.net round 476, no time limit
Scramble: D' U' F' R' U F' B' R' B F D2 F R D L' U' F' U2 L' U' L U' F R2 L' F D' U2 L' R'

Premoves L2 U2 B2
B2 U L F //Lots of blocks (3x2x1 + 2x2x1 + 2 ce pairs), 7 moves in total

Can anyone find a good continuation?
I tried to get started with FMC. My first try was 41 moves, so not quite there yet. I thought it would be good to reproduce some of the solves here to see what the random thoughtprocess is. Blockbuilding and commutators should help me to get better with general cubing. And after all the joy of learning something new is also worth a lot.


I don't understand the premoves you make, and I hope you can explain them to me.

L2 U2 B2 followed by B2 U L F, looks like L2 U L F. So I think I might have done something wrong.
 

Bunyanderman

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U' F2 B2 R' B2 D' R B2 L2 D F2 D2 L B' U F2 B' D' F2 L' D U R2 U2 L2
L B2 U 3/3
F' D F B' D B 6/9
D F' D' F 4/13
D L F2 L' 4/17
D B R2 B' 4/21

F D' F' D' R' D R D F D' 10/31
L D L' D' 4/35
D' B' D F' D2 B D' B' D2 B D' 10/46 (took 45 minutes to find a last layer plus f2l pair + LL solution)


(D2 F D F' D2 F D' F' 8/29
L D B' D' L D L' B L 9/38
B2 R2 B L B' R2 B L B 9/47 ( alternate ending ))
help would be appreciative, this is my first attempt and using CFOP/Free Fop to solve the cube
 

tx789

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B2 F2 R2 L2 D' U2 B2 L2 D' L2 D F' U2 L' D2 R2 D' B2 F L' D

This leaves me with a z-perm on F
F R' B //2x2x2
F2 U2 F' D2 F' L R' D2 R L' F' D2 F U2 F2//insertion 3/3
U2 F2 L2 F' B' U B//2x2x3 6/9
F U F U2 F2 R' F R//F2L#38/17
U' F U F' L F L'//F2L#4 7/24
Uw F2 U' F' U F' Uw' F//OLL8/31
View at alg.garron.us


by using http://mf.qiyuuu.com/cube/if/f73e3e5a992a3b9805f75a6f2c98d46a.cube it gives 39 move solutions.

What can you guys get on it. The 3 move 2x2x2 block is nice. I kinda suck at FMC
 

Mirek

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Feb 6, 2008
Messages
108
woow, no, I did miss that!
No way I came up with R2 as extra (inserted) pre-move. Other options made more sense.
@Tomoaki, logical explanation of given solution doesn't mean they could easily be found.

Good to see you back on this forum Mirek!
Are you still cubing?
So much happening in FMC!

Gus

I've not been cubing for some time (measured in years). Recently, I attempted a few traditional FMC at http://fmc.mustcube.net/ and was not happy with over 28-move slow time solutions.
Finally,..., I will post something for FMC #477. No spoiler yet.

Good to see you and other big names still around competing!

Mirek
 

Bunyanderman

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I need help please,
Pre moves U F2
Scramble B' U' B' D R' B' U' R2 D U2 F R' U' R2 L' F' L' B2 D2 U L2 U F L2 F
2x2x3 block R U' R' D B D2 B' R2 B2 F' U L U' L B 15/15
this is where i need help.
i found this which solves first 2 layers
D F' D F2 D F2 6/21
D F' D' R' D' R 6/27
i found a 18 move last layer, but i am not satisfied.
 

Mirek

Member
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Feb 6, 2008
Messages
108
Missed my submission (with a nice result) in FMC476/speed, so here it is:

Scramble: D2 L' D2 U2 L2 U' F L' U F D' B2 U2 L B2 L B U2 L R' B2 D' R B2 U' R2 F' U' B2 L
Solution: B R F L B2 D' R2 B F2 R' F' U' R' U' R' U' R' U R2 B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2 (29 HTM)

1st square: B R
2nd square: F L B2 D' R2
2x2x3 block: B F
Orient edges: F R' F'
F2L minus 1 slot: U' R' U'
Finish F2L: R' U' R' U
All but 2c2e: R2
J-perm: B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2

EDIT: congrats to winners in Twente Open 2013. :)
That is an excellent linear solve! I suck in it, but keep practicing.
Anyway, I noticed you could have saved 2 more moves if you finished with another familiar J-perm: U' D' R2 D R D' R2 U R' D R'. You would see that the first move cancels out (no R2 needed before it) soon enough.

Mirek
 

okayama

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Missed my submission (with a nice result) in FMC476/speed, so here it is:

Scramble: D2 L' D2 U2 L2 U' F L' U F D' B2 U2 L B2 L B U2 L R' B2 D' R B2 U' R2 F' U' B2 L
Solution: B R F L B2 D' R2 B F2 R' F' U' R' U' R' U' R' U R2 B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2 (29 HTM)

1st square: B R
2nd square: F L B2 D' R2
2x2x3 block: B F
Orient edges: F R' F'
F2L minus 1 slot: U' R' U'
Finish F2L: R' U' R' U
All but 2c2e: R2
J-perm: B2 D' R' D B2 U' L U' L' U2

EDIT: congrats to winners in Twente Open 2013. :)
That is an excellent linear solve! I suck in it, but keep practicing.
Anyway, I noticed you could have saved 2 more moves if you finished with another familiar J-perm: U' D' R2 D R D' R2 U R' D R'. You would see that the first move cancels out (no R2 needed before it) soon enough.

Mirek
Thanks, and actually after the solve (during writing a
solution to submit) I noticed that.
I recognized it as a pair 3-cycle with a setup, i.e.,
D' (U' Lw2 U R U' Lw2 U R') D
and AUF. However, in order to save 2 moves by this,
I had to notice that before finishing F2L (because U U' is
not counted as 0 move in the linear solve regulation) and
I'm sure I did finish F2L before investigating the LL status...

Anyway I'm looking forward to seeing your solution in FMC477.
Don't forget to insert a backslash before ' in your comments!
EDIT: FYI, there's problem in submission, see my post.
 
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