• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 35,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

TerryD's quest for sub 10 ZZ-CT

TerryD

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
18
When all pieces are oriented, it makes more sense to use two sided PLL recognition. If the D colored corner is at UBL and you can only see the R, U and F faces, then 2 sided PLL recognition is pretty good. I never figured out how to recognize from the other 4 angles though.
I know 2-sided PLL recognition, but I can't directly apply that to TTLL recognition. By 2 sided PLL recognition, do you mean looking for checker patterns or blocks or headlights?
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
279
Sub-10 with ZZ-CT is definitely reasonable imo. The main thing holding it back is that most of the TTLL algs are pretty trash compared to OLL,PLL, and ZBLL. I also think TSLE is a pointless step when you can just intentionally pair the last F2L edge with 1 of 5 corners, the correct one or one of the LL corners, such that the corner is oriented and you can go directly into OCLL/COLL and PLL or OCLL/COLL and TTLL and be able to do TTLL influencing via COLL to avoid trash TTLLs.
 
Last edited:

Joe Archibald

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Messages
12
Sub-10 with ZZ-CT is definitely reasonable imo. The main thing holding it back is that most of the TTLL algs are pretty trash compared to OLL,PLL, and ZBLL. I also think TSLE is a pointless step when you can just intentionally pair the last F2L edge with 1 of 5 corners, the correct one or one of the LL corners, such that the corner is oriented and you can go directly into OCLL/COLL and PLL or OCLL/COLL and TTLL and be able to do TTLL influencing via COLL to avoid trash TTLLs.
when used correctly tsle takes almost the same time as the last F2L pair meaning that the last layer is solved in one algorithm so ttll is faster than oll+pll put together
 

Tao Yu

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,100
Location
Ireland
WCA
2012YUTA01
YouTube
Visit Channel
I know 2-sided PLL recognition, but I can't directly apply that to TTLL recognition.
ttll recog.JPG

Notice how the R and F faces are the same. Thus, if you can recognize an F perm two sided from that angle, you should also be able to recognize the corresponding TTLL. For every TTLL there is a PLL that looks the same if you choose the correct angle. There is a table here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/148i4z9K--45G_-RH0f5ayC5Za8cPMyy5/view?usp=sharing showing which PLL has the same recognition as each TTLL.

By 2 sided PLL recognition, do you mean looking for checker patterns or blocks or headlights?
Yes, use any pattern that is easy to see. In the above example, you would look at the corner permutation, the fact that the bottom right corner looks like a Z perm, and the two opposite colors in the top right (blue and green).
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
279
when used correctly tsle takes almost the same time as the last F2L pair meaning that the last layer is solved in one algorithm so ttll is faster than oll+pll put together
The problem I have with this argument when people make this argument is that it takes the same amount of time to insert just the edge or a pair. As a result, you will be left into TSLE or OCLL/COLL and either way it’s an alg. Technically TSLE can be intuitive sure, but in practice most people would just look up and memorize an alg for it, making the point that TTLL solves the LL in one alg a moot point because there is always some recognition and execution of TSLE beforehand, which, in my mind, just changes what kind of OLL and PLL is possible. It would be like having a CFOP solver get to OLL, orient all the edges with some alg and do ZBLL. Sure, the ZBLL alg solved the LL in one alg but there was still a setup step. As a result, I personally see the future of ZZCT, assuming TTLL algs are improved as an option select thing between ZZ A and CT, where once you have one F2L pair left you choose whether you pair the edge with the proper corner or one of the LL corners based on what is the easiest to pair with and have the pairing corner be oriented correctly, and then go into ZBLL or OCLL/COLL and TTLL.
 
Last edited:

TerryD

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
18
Would inserting an F2L edge while blockbuilding F2L to reduce TSLE case count be good? It takes probably 2 moves or less more for me on average.
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
279
Would inserting an F2L edge while blockbuilding F2L to reduce TSLE case count be good? It takes probably 2 moves or less more for me on average.
If you are trying to get fast with any form of ZZ, it is widely accepted that for two handed solving, EOCross and solving normal F2L is better than EOLine and blockbuilding. So I would say no. Just do EOCross, and instead of TSLE make one of the F2L pairs with any of the last corners or the proper one and you'll get a normal OLL and either TTLL or PLL, depending on if you made a pair with a last layer corner.
 
Top