SpeedCubeLegend's Progression Thread | Aiming for Sub 1:20 3BLD, Sub-10 3x3, Sub-1:20 Megaminx, Sub-5 Pyraminx, Sub-10 Skewb | No Upcoming Comps

[SpeakCuba]

Don't worry about cross too much, as long as you know how to insert multiple pieces, solving the layer and then aligning it, planning it out all in inspection, and then solving the cross 8 moves or less each time (or at least 99% of the time) you should be good. If you're Sub-12 I'd worry about Cross+1 more and lookahead.

x2. Although as you get faster you do need to start making sure your cross is efficient.

 

[gsingh]

Don't worry about cross too much, as long as you know how to insert multiple pieces, solving the layer and then aligning it, planning it out all in inspection, and then solving the cross 8 moves or less each time (or at least 99% of the time) you should be good. If you're Sub-12 I'd worry about Cross+1 more and lookahead.

I would actually advise you to perfect your cross before moving on to Cross+1, as it makes Cross+1 a lot easier. Make sure every single cross solution is perfect. A cross solver like the one on CubeDB (or the one on Cstimer) will be helpful.

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

Don't worry about cross too much, as long as you know how to insert multiple pieces, solving the layer and then aligning it, planning it out all in inspection, and then solving the cross 8 moves or less each time (or at least 99% of the time) you should be good. If you're Sub-12 I'd worry about Cross+1 more and lookahead.

The lack of argumentative signal words in this message worries me, as it indicates a lack of arguments. Your message contains two major assertions without backup. You claim:

• Cross does not have to be efficient at the 12 second level.
• Cross+1 needs to be prioritized over cross efficiency.

Here is why both are false:

• You can't average 12 seconds without having a decent/good understanding of the cube. Having this understanding makes gaining cross efficiency a lot easier, which in turn makes focussing on cross efficiency result in basically free improvement (assuming your cross wasn't efficient already).
• When considering the order in which to learn things, you need to account for the influence the one has over the other. Cross+1 is heavily influenced by cross efficiency, in two ways:
  • Cross+1 requires you to trace through your cross solution to see where your pairs end up. This is clearly a lot easier when there aren't as many moves in said cross solution (i.e. when your cross is efficient). It only makes sense to even care about cross+1 if you can plan an efficient cross solution.
  • Improving your cross efficiency means learning/discovering many solutions to specific cases. All these various solutions may end up leaving you with a better/easier first F2L pair, depending on the specific scramble.

In conclusion, practice cross efficiency.



PS right before posting I realized @gsingh posted something about this as well, but I'll post this anyway, because why waste the effort?

 

[SpeedCubeLegend17]

I would actually advise you to perfect your cross before moving on to Cross+1, as it makes Cross+1 a lot easier. Make sure every single cross solution is perfect. A cross solver like the one on CubeDB (or the one on Cstimer) will be helpful.

Yeah I'd say my main problem with cross is just resorting to inserting pairs one by one (not all of them, usually just one or two, all of them would take forever) which makes it harder to track the first pair and is very inefficient. I'll definitely make sure to do some cross practice. Thanks for the response!

 

[SpeakCuba]

I would actually advise you to perfect your cross before moving on to Cross+1, as it makes Cross+1 a lot easier. Make sure every single cross solution is perfect. A cross solver like the one on CubeDB (or the one on Cstimer) will be helpful.

True, but you don’t really need Cross +1 at 12+ seconds. Also, I’ve tried using the cross solver on Cstimer, but it makes no sense. How does that work?

 

[SpeakCuba]

Yeah I'd say my main problem with cross is just resorting to inserting pairs one by one (not all of them, usually just one or two, all of them would take forever) which makes it harder to track the first pair and is very inefficient. I'll definitely make sure to do some cross practice. Thanks for the response!

You could try watching Jperm’s videos on it. I think BrodyTheCuber also has some videos on it.

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

True, but you don’t really need Cross +1 at 12+ seconds.

Further proving our point.

Also, I’ve tried using the cross solver on Cstimer, but it makes no sense. How does that work?

It gives you a cross solution for each face on the cube. It seems quite straightforward to me.

Make sure every single cross solution is perfect

I'd like to add that this is not necessary. In fact, it is not even possible, as there is no clear definition as to what makes a cross solution perfect. Sometimes, it's better to trade a short cross solution for a more fingertrickable one. Sometimes, it's the other way around. It's incredibly hard to be sure which is better before starting, because you can't just try both and see which is faster. You need to develop some intuition for it. Besides, sometimes you should worsen your cross solution a bit to improve your first pair.
That said, your cross solution shouldn't be 'always perfect', but rather 'always good'.

 

[SpeakCuba]

Further proving our point.

How? I’m really confused. Either way, doesn’t matter, you and @gsingh gave pretty good explanations.

It gives you a cross solution for each face on the cube. It seems quite straightforward to me.

I’ve tried it multiple times, but the solutions it gives me never actually solve the cross. They just scramble my cube some more. I don’t really know what I did wrong.

I'd like to add that this is not necessary. In fact, it is not even possible, as there is no clear definition as to what makes a cross solution perfect. Sometimes, it's better to trade a short cross solution for a more fingertrickable one. Sometimes, it's the other way around. It's incredibly hard to be sure which is better before starting, because you can't just try both and see which is faster. You need to develop some intuition for it. Besides, sometimes you should worsen your cross solution a bit to improve your first pair.
That said, your cross solution shouldn't be 'always perfect', but rather 'always good'.

x2.

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

I’ve tried it multiple times, but the solutions it gives me never actually solve the cross. They just scramble my cube some more. I don’t really know what I did wrong.

I suppose @SpeedCubeLegend17 will forgive me for posting in her progression thread again about this, as it might help her as well. For this scramble:
B L B R U2 D' F2 L2 F' D F2 D F2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U
It gives me these solutions:
D(ec): F2 D L F R' D2
U(ec): z2 F U F2 R L' B' R2
L(ec): z' L2 F B R D
R(ec): z R2 D F D2
F(ec): x' B R' L D2 B2
B(ec): x F L D2 B L D
I don't know what the (ec) means, but the solution appears to be done from a different angle after clicking it. That's not the relevant part, however. After doing the scramble, applying F2 D L F R' D2 will solve the yellow (D layer) cross. If you want a solution for the red cross, which is the right face, you need to do z R2 D F D2.
Hope this helps!

 

[SpeakCuba]

I suppose @SpeedCubeLegend17 will forgive me for posting in his progression thread again about this, as it might help him as well. For this scramble:
B L B R U2 D' F2 L2 F' D F2 D F2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U
It gives me these solutions:
D(ec): F2 D L F R' D2
U(ec): z2 F U F2 R L' B' R2
L(ec): z' L2 F B R D
R(ec): z R2 D F D2
F(ec): x' B R' L D2 B2
B(ec): x F L D2 B L D
I don't know what the (ec) means, but the solution appears to be done from a different angle after clicking it. That's not the relevant part, however. After doing the scramble, applying F2 D L F R' D2 will solve the yellow (D layer) cross. If you want a solution for the red cross, which is the right face, you need to do z R2 D F D2.
Hope this helps!

Oh okay, thank you! This makes it much easier to understand.

(By the way, it’s her, not him).

 

[gsingh]

I'd like to add that this is not necessary. In fact, it is not even possible, as there is no clear definition as to what makes a cross solution perfect. Sometimes, it's better to trade a short cross solution for a more fingertrickable one. Sometimes, it's the other way around. It's incredibly hard to be sure which is better before starting, because you can't just try both and see which is faster. You need to develop some intuition for it. Besides, sometimes you should worsen your cross solution a bit to improve your first pair.
That said, your cross solution shouldn't be 'always perfect', but rather 'always good'.

Of course perfection is almost impossible, but a world class cross is not rather difficult to know how to do, and as that is probably the closest to perfect we will ever get, aiming for a cross of world class caliber should always be the goal.

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

Oh okay, thank you! This makes it much easier to understand.

(By the way, it’s her, not him).

No problem! Also, I didn't know, I'll edit it.

Of course perfection is almost impossible, but a world class cross is not rather difficult to know how to do, and as that is probably the closest to perfect we will ever get, aiming for a cross of world class caliber should always be the goal.

I agree. But I was more still on the topic of 12 second solvers.

 

[SpeedCubeLegend17]

I suppose @SpeedCubeLegend17 will forgive me for posting in her progression thread again about this, as it might help her as well. For this scramble:
B L B R U2 D' F2 L2 F' D F2 D F2 U' B2 L2 U' F2 R2 U
It gives me these solutions:
D(ec): F2 D L F R' D2
U(ec): z2 F U F2 R L' B' R2
L(ec): z' L2 F B R D
R(ec): z R2 D F D2
F(ec): x' B R' L D2 B2
B(ec): x F L D2 B L D
I don't know what the (ec) means, but the solution appears to be done from a different angle after clicking it. That's not the relevant part, however. After doing the scramble, applying F2 D L F R' D2 will solve the yellow (D layer) cross. If you want a solution for the red cross, which is the right face, you need to do z R2 D F D2.
Hope this helps!

Well I should probably use this tool as well so it is helpful for me too

 

[SkewbIsTheBestEvent]

I would actually advise you to perfect your cross before moving on to Cross+1, as it makes Cross+1 a lot easier. Make sure every single cross solution is perfect. A cross solver like the one on CubeDB (or the one on Cstimer) will be helpful.

The lack of argumentative signal words in this message worries me, as it indicates a lack of arguments. Your message contains two major assertions without backup. You claim:

• Cross does not have to be efficient at the 12 second level.
• Cross+1 needs to be prioritized over cross efficiency.

Here is why both are false:

• You can't average 12 seconds without having a decent/good understanding of the cube. Having this understanding makes gaining cross efficiency a lot easier, which in turn makes focussing on cross efficiency result in basically free improvement (assuming your cross wasn't efficient already).
• When considering the order in which to learn things, you need to account for the influence the one has over the other. Cross+1 is heavily influenced by cross efficiency, in two ways:
  • Cross+1 requires you to trace through your cross solution to see where your pairs end up. This is clearly a lot easier when there aren't as many moves in said cross solution (i.e. when your cross is efficient). It only makes sense to even care about cross+1 if you can plan an efficient cross solution.
  • Improving your cross efficiency means learning/discovering many solutions to specific cases. All these various solutions may end up leaving you with a better/easier first F2L pair, depending on the specific scramble.

In conclusion, practice cross efficiency.



PS right before posting I realized @gsingh posted something about this as well, but I'll post this anyway, because why waste the effort?

Yeah, I guess I wasn't too clear. All I'm saying is that if you are Sub-12, your cross should be decently good. If @SpeedCubeLegend17's cross is usually under 8 moves, and if they know all/most of the advanced techniques, Cross+1 should be next, because like you guys said efficiency is important, and then you build upon that. However, if their cross takes more than 8 moves and if they do not know much advanced techniques, then of course focusing on that is important. I assumed that their cross was already efficient because they are Sub-12, and by then your cross should be quite good, but I shouldn't have assumed.

 

[SpeedCubeLegend17]

Not cubing related but I have my final chemistry exam in an hour and I'm going to fail so hard

 

[Arcanist]

Not cubing related but I have my final chemistry exam in an hour and I'm going to fail so hard

Nah you got this. I would give you some studying tips or something but I don't have any...

 

[SpeedCubeLegend17]

Just got a full-step 8.....

Generated By csTimer+ on 2023-12-11
single: 8.91

Time List:
1. 8.91 U' R' B2 D B2 U2 L2 D2 L2 U' F2 R2 B2 R' F' U L' U B2 U' R2

 

[JDAW6]

Woaj

 

[baseballjello67]

How'd the test go?

 

[SpeedCubeLegend17]

How'd the test go?

I got an 82% adjusted since the curve was insane, unadjusted it was like a 54%. Apparently I got a score in the upper quartile as well and I should be happy but I don't deserve it at all, I literally studied 0 and slept through most of that class