# Reached Sub-1-Minute

#### Karthik

##### Member
Hi all!
Today reached sub-1-minute for the first time.Reached around 54 secs.
I have been cubing since march 03.
I had read that with a beginners sub-1-minute was possible.Now that I have reached that, what do you advanced cubers suggest me to learn next?

#### AvGalen

Some would suggest keyhole (I would), others would suggest intuitive F2L (PJK would). Both of us would recommend learning a 4 look last layer without repeating an algorith twice. There have been several simular topics last month, just look for them.

I think getting sub 1 within 6 weeks is pretty impressive, but that also depends on the amount of time you have spent during those 6 weeks (6*7*24 <> 6*7*0.5)

#### Karthik

##### Member
I spent around 2-3 hours everyday practising.Sometimes more.
Well I guess I will learn the OLL algs and improve my F2L times.

#### AvGalen

Hooooooo, Stop, pause. One minute you are saying you use a beginners method (at least that is what I understood). The other moment you are talking about learning all OLL-algs. Go ahead if you want to, but I think you should split it up in a couple of steps:

First learn:
3 OLL algs, so you can always do Edge-OLL in 1 alg
7 OLL algs, so you can always do Corner-OLL in 1 alg
2 PLL algs, so you can always do Corner-PLL in 1 alg
4 PLL algs, so you can always do Edge-PLL in 1 alg

And how are you planning on improving your F2L times. Sounds like you are "just going to learn all algs" for that too?

#### Karthik

##### Member
Well the beginners method presently I use is
1)First layer(Cross+the corners)
2)Fix the edges in the usual manner.
3)Fix the last layer edges(Repeatedly using the same alg)
4)Fix the corners.
Basically the algs I use are the ones as explained by Tyson Mao in his youtube vids.
Actually I am also practising the keyhole method.I watched u r videos on Youtube.
Thats how I plan to reduce my F2L times
As per my knowledge there are 57 OLL algs.So please make these statements more clearly.Please dont mind.I dint exactly get you.

"First learn:
3 OLL algs, so you can always do Edge-OLL in 1 alg
7 OLL algs, so you can always do Corner-OLL in 1 alg
2 PLL algs, so you can always do Corner-PLL in 1 alg
4 PLL algs, so you can always do Edge-PLL in 1 alg"

#### Karthik

##### Member
Oh!
So the 57 algs make up the 1-look OLL!
Thanks for the enlightenment.Well I guess I already know half of the algs needed for 4 look last layer!
Thanks AvG!

#### AvGalen

That's exactly how it works.

For the last layer there are over 1000 algorithms you would need to learn for a 1 look last layer. Because that is just to much algs to remember and to much patterns to recognize these cases have been split up into easier to recognize groups. The most wellknown groups are "OLL and PLL", but other groups ("Corners and Edges", "edge OLL, COLL, edge PLL") also exist. OLL and PLL is referred to as 2 look last layer

OLL and PLL can be broken into smaller groups (edge OLL, corners OLL, corners PLL and edge PLL) to reduce it to even simpler patterns and less algorithms. This is called a 4 look last layer.

Even those 4 groups can be split up into multiple groups, resulting in only 4 patterns (and thus 4 algs) that need to be recognized and executed, sometimes multiple times resulting in a 4-to-11-look.

Naturally, more looks mean more moves and thus slower times. The good news is all 4 algs you learn for a 4-to-11 look is actually also 1 of the 4 look algs. Each of the 16 algs you need for a 4 look last layer is also one of the 57+21 2 look algs. And even those 57+21 algs are actually part of that 1000 algs.

#### Sniph

##### Member
I've said it before, and I will continue to say it. With any decent beginners method, you should be able to average sub 45, or even 35. Keep practicing with your current method, learn intuitive f2l, then a 3 look with Pll, then Oll.

#### Karthik

##### Member
Hi!
Well I dint know that there are so many algs for the last layer!
And learning over 1000 algs is impractical I believe.I really wonder if any cuber uses 1 look last layer method.
2-look LL seems much more practical and worth the fight.
Anyway I am quite far from any of these.
Which of the steps do we merge together in a 3 look LL?

#### Inferno.Fighter.IV

##### Member
Originally posted by karthikputhraya@Apr 17 2007, 08:08 AM
Hi!
Well I dint know that there are so many algs for the last layer!
And learning over 1000 algs is impractical I believe.I really wonder if any cuber uses 1 look last layer method.
2-look LL seems much more practical and worth the fight.
Anyway I am quite far from any of these.
Which of the steps do we merge together in a 3 look LL?

#### Karthik

##### Member
OK fine.
I got it.But what are the practical limits of each stage.I mean what do sub 20 and sub 30 cubers use.1 look LL,2 look LL or 3 look LL.
What maximum speeds can I expect out of 4 look LL?

#### AvGalen

NOBODY uses 1 look. Not now, not in the near future, probably not ever. Some people tried doing edge-OLL during F2L and then Corner-OLL+PLL in 1 look, but nobody really mastered that.

I think it is pretty safe to say that most sub 20 solvers use 2 look, most sub 30 solvers use 3 look and most sub 40 solvers use 4 look.

There are exceptions: I am a sub 30 cuber and still use 4 look. Erik has a new video of him doing a 4 look + beginners F2L in sub 25. Jo?l told us he could do the same in sub 20 on average.

Remember: It is not just about the amount of algorithms, looks or patterns. It is about look-ahead, recognition, execution, fluency, etc.

#### pjk

Staff member
Congrats on sub-1-minute!

Some would suggest keyhole (I would), others would suggest intuitive F2L (PJK would).
Well, this really depends on how dedicated that person is. I have taught probably 30 people how to solve, and only 1 has become very dedicated. The other 30 I am recommending the keyhold method to, because it will drop their times easily with nothing new to learn, just practice. I'd recommend that if you plan on trying to avg. sub-20, start learning Fridrich F2L or Roux/Petrus methods.

Good luck.

#### Sniph

##### Member
I'm not sure what people averaging with the different last layers, but what is really key to good times is your f2l. With a decent f2l, I could average around 25-30 seconds with a 4 look, and i averaged around 23 second with 3 look, now with partial 2 look, i average around 18 seconds.

#### Arakron

##### Member
I'm sort of to 4-look, still just use 2 (anti)sunes for a couple of the corner OLL's, but I've done it enough that it's just a longer alg. And I got a sub-33 avg a couple days ago. I think my F2L is pretty good (intuitive Fridrich), but my LL definitely needs work. I haven't timed it recently on the LL trainer, but i imagine it averages between 10 and 15s. I've been cubing for 4 1/2 months now.

So the point of that is that it's reasonable to get close to, or under 30 with a 4-look, but why wait? If I had gotten off my lazy bum and learned 1 alg per day after I felt I'd gotten a handle on my F2L, I'd be at full Fridrich by now, easily sub-30 and maybe even better.