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Quest to learn full ZBLL [Week 8]

Will I learn full 1LLL?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Ya Stupid


Results are only viewable after voting.

Andreas5204

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
13
One thing that we discussed on discord about memory palaces is that when you actually use algs in solves, your recall process must be far more streamlined. During a solve there is no time to "visit" your memory palace in order to recall the alg. Seeing the case in front of you should immediately trigger the associated image in your brain, and that in turn must immediately trigger your memory of the moves of the alg. Here, it is worth noting that people like me don't use images for our algs, so my thought process goes directly from seeing the case to remembering the moves. So where you remember an image, the process should be instantaneous, i.e. the association between the image and the moves of the alg should be so strong that your brain pretty much treats them as the same thing.
From what I understand, the memory palace is really only intended to be an intermediate memory method until you can instantly associate a case with its algorithm. So after you've memorized all of ZBLL, you still need to go in and train cases with a trainer.
The memory palace system is almost like an add-on to the traditional method of learning algs, since you can get by without it just fine. But memory palaces are known for being relatively long-term and fast to create.
Even if they aren't great for learning algs, memory palaces are really neat and have applications for lots of other areas, too. I was just trying to show LukasCubes that there is another option, even if it's not the best, for him to research on his own.
Also, I know Jabari isn't a god. I just think he's really cool. But just because he doesn't use memory palaces doesn't mean that someone else can't use them.
 

Tao Yu

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Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,151
Location
Ireland
WCA
2012YUTA01
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From what I understand, the memory palace is really only intended to be an intermediate memory method until you can instantly associate a case with its algorithm. So after you've memorized all of ZBLL, you still need to go in and train cases with a trainer.
The memory palace system is almost like an add-on to the traditional method of learning algs, since you can get by without it just fine. But memory palaces are known for being relatively long-term and fast to create.
Even if they aren't great for learning algs, memory palaces are really neat and have applications for lots of other areas, too. I was just trying to show LukasCubes that there is another option, even if it's not the best, for him to research on his own.
Okay, we're not really in disagreement here. You'll see in my post I never said I believe memory palaces are never useful for alg learning, but just wanted to state a few things that one has to keep in mind before using them.

I do think however that the fact that you eventually have to learn a second method for remembering ZBLL should make one question if it is really necessary. I think there's a decent chance that once you've finished learning all of the algs in a second way, you'll just never have to visit your memory palace again, and eventually you will forget everything that you put there (unless you maintain it). There is certainly no harm in having the memory palace, but if you're not going to use it eventually, you should wonder whether it was worth making in the first place.

It may be the case that memory palaces allow you to retain the memory longer, but again, I don't know how important that really is. If you train your algs really well you should be able to remember them long term. It also tends to be a lot easier to relearn algs than to learn them the first time, especially if you trained them a lot.

Also, I know Jabari isn't a god. I just think he's really cool. But just because he doesn't use memory palaces doesn't mean that someone else can't use them.
The purpose of my comment there was purely to disagree with the part where you said you couldn't see anyone learning 1LLL in a timely manner without memory palaces.

As I've said a few times, I'm not saying that memory palaces are useless for everyone. It's just that the reasons for using a palace that I've seen so far don't seem very compelling to me. So maybe there's just a reason out there that I'm just not aware of.

I think memory palaces are good for specific things. They are amazing for structured data such as strings of long numbers or letters. However, in my personal experience, there are some things which it just doesn't work for. I used to think I would create huge memory palaces for memorizing stuff for exams, and Chinese characters, but found that stuff like flashcards are just way superior.
 

EngiNerdBrian

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
560
Location
Denver
I crossed 100, now lets go up more
100 additional algs since you started the quest or 100 total?
Algs known 101/494. (Cases 1-12, 15, 25-26, 47, 49, 61, 73-84, 89-90, 97-98, 107-108, 109-110, 122, 134, 145-154, 155, 160, 169, 181, 193, 205, 220, 226, 237, 256, 266, 280, 289, 304, 309, 321, 331, 342, 353, 366, 383, 394, 404, 414, 426, 438, 455, 466 473-494)
 

EngiNerdBrian

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
560
Location
Denver
This is where I will learn ZBLL. After I finish this in like a year, I will go to ELL which is under 30 algs and will be much easier.

Algs known 101/494. (Cases 1-12, 15, 25-26, 47, 49, 61, 73-84, 89-90, 97-98, 107-108, 109-110, 122, 134, 145-154, 155, 160, 169, 181, 193, 205, 220, 226, 237, 256, 266, 280, 289, 304, 309, 321, 331, 342, 353, 366, 383, 394, 404, 414, 426, 438, 455, 466 473-494)
So over the first 2.5 months of the quest you've FORGOTTEN 4 algs when compared to day 1?
 

LukasCubes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
400
Location
West Virginia
So over the first 2.5 months of the quest you've FORGOTTEN 4 algs when compared to day 1?
I never forgot any algs. Day 1 was back when it was called quest to learn full 1LLL. Of course its ZBLL now but I never forgot any algs.

ALRIGHT EVERYONE I have learned all L cases for 2GLL which is like 12 cases. Tomorrow I plan to recap all those algs ALL DAY
 

EngiNerdBrian

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
560
Location
Denver
thanks man, im more focused on recaping algs for this weekend. Today I recap the L 2GLL, tomorrow I will recap the U 2GLL, and Sunday I will recap the T 2GLL. Monday I will start learning the H 2GLL.
Is there some sort of trainer you are using? OLL and PLL trainers were essential for practicing recall when I was learning those alg sets
 
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