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Quest to learn full ZBLL [SUSPENDED]

Will I learn full 1LLL?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Ya Stupid


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LukasCubes

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By extrapolation, clearly it'll only take one week to learn full 1LLL!


Unless you're going out of your way to somehow avoid repeated cases, you're really looking at around 32000 solves (see: coupon collector's problem) to get every 1LLL (except skip/H perm/pure 4-flip/4-flip H) at least once.

Also, who the heck regularly does 2000-solve sessions? Like, assuming they spend 4 seconds scrambling, 6 seconds inspection and 6 seconds to solve, that's 16 seconds per solve, or 32000 seconds = 8 hours 53 minutes in total. It's not impossible; it's just ridiculous to expect anyone normal to be able to keep up with that kind of practice schedule.

But yes, seeing the cases show up in solves really does help reinforce them in your memory.


1LLL subsumes ZBLL, and it also completely obsoletes WV and most of ZBLS. Assuming OP is sufficiently committed to eventually learning full 1LLL, F2L algs are the only useful thing you listed here. (That said, no offence, LukasCubes, but my money would be on you giving up within a year.)

Why spend 3+ more moves in last slot to force EO/CO, when you can just spend 1-2 more moves to do 1LLL instead? The only advantage of PLL as a 1LLL subset is that it's usually something that's practised much more than the other 1LLL cases, which means that you'll be more fluent with the algs and recognition, but in the super long run it doesn't make sense to prioritise PLL because the algs aren't even that much better. Same for ZBLL. Honestly, the only things that are worth avoiding in 1LLL are the 4-flip and maybe the opposite-flip EO subsets.

(This is from a theoretical standpoint and I really need to emphasise the "super long run" part of it. It's something that's maybe relevant if OP still sees himself cubing five years? ten years? later. Practically speaking, ZBLS and the easier WV cases will still have a positive impact now.)
crazy but true
I know that. And I would be a betting man on no one ever learning full 1LLL.
i will be the first at 203- or 2040ish
Some people are already close, I think it's safe to assume that several people will learn it in the next decade or so.
i totally agree
Honestly anki isn't that good for 1lll you'd want a trainer like bestsiteever.ru has for zbll it's far better for this case.

Anki is useful for drilling 3 style since a letter pair is what it is based off.

Also he should gen his own algs for this. So using anki means making your own deck.
i have been using bestsiteever.ru since before full 3LLL
uhh CubeHead lol
yeah i have no idea what the heck you are talking about but ok whatever you do you
 

Tao Yu

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People seem to assume that big algsets have to be constantly reviewed in order for one to retain the algs but I think it's often also possible to just learn them really really well at the start - to the point where you'll remember them even without regular reviews.

I know that this is possible for ZBLL because this was my experience. If you look at the method I used to learn ZBLL, it was a very time efficient approach that had me recognizing and recalling algs at as fast a rate as possible. Since learning ZBLL I've taken a couple breaks from cubing where I did no reviews and basically didn't forget any algs (I temporarily forgot some, but usually was able to remember without looking up an alg sheet).

1LLL is obviously a lot bigger but I think you could still probably achieve something like this. I think if I was to learn full 1LLL, I'd treat it as learning ZBLL 8 times. I'd learn about 500 algs in two months, use the next month to review those algs to a extremely high standard, and then learn the next 500 algs in the following two months and so on.
 

LukasCubes

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People seem to assume that big algsets have to be constantly reviewed in order for one to retain the algs but I think it's often also possible to just learn them really really well at the start - to the point where you'll remember them even without regular reviews.

I know that this is possible for ZBLL because this was my experience. If you look at the method I used to learn ZBLL, it was a very time efficient approach that had me recognizing and recalling algs at as fast a rate as possible. Since learning ZBLL I've taken a couple breaks from cubing where I did no reviews and basically didn't forget any algs (I temporarily forgot some, but usually was able to remember without looking up an alg sheet).

1LLL is obviously a lot bigger but I think you could still probably achieve something like this. I think if I was to learn full 1LLL, I'd treat it as learning ZBLL 8 times. I'd learn about 500 algs in two months, use the next month to review those algs to a extremely high standard, and then learn the next 500 algs in the following two months and so on.
thats a nice strategy to use i might use that.
 

Tao Yu

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With enough experience, you should be able to figure out the fingertricks for most algs in like 0-10 seconds.

Some of you may know that I learned most of ZBLL on a virtual cube, meaning I didn't learn the fingertricks. If you watch the videos I made during the period where I was learning ZBLL however, you'll see I was able to fingertrick most algs pretty well in solves (even one-handed). This is because I already had the experience of learning full OLL, PLL, TTLL and 3-style, giving me the ability to figure out fingertricks really quickly.

I think a lot of beginners place a lot of importance on muscle memory and learning fingertricks because they're used having to spend a lot of time to figure out how to fingertrick algs due to inexperience, and having to drill algs for a long time to master them due to unfamiliarity with certain fingertricks. It is worth knowing that with a lot of practice learning algs, one will have a different kind of experience.
 

Nir1213

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With enough experience, you should be able to figure out the fingertricks for most algs in like 0-10 seconds.

Some of you may know that I learned most of ZBLL on a virtual cube, meaning I didn't learn the fingertricks. If you watch the videos I made during the period where I was learning ZBLL however, you'll see I was able to fingertrick most algs pretty well in solves (even one-handed). This is because I already had the experience of learning full OLL, PLL, TTLL and 3-style, giving me the ability to figure out fingertricks really quickly.

I think a lot of beginners place a lot of importance on muscle memory and learning fingertricks because they're used having to spend a lot of time to figure out how to fingertrick algs due to inexperience, and having to drill algs for a long time to master them due to unfamiliarity with certain fingertricks. It is worth knowing that with a lot of practice learning algs, one will have a different kind of experience.
yup he does not have to work on the fingertricks, as probably he will figure it out. he should just learn the algs and then practice them to not forget and to practice his recog, and by doing that he would probably figure out the fingertricks for them.
 

LukasCubes

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yup he does not have to work on the fingertricks, as probably he will figure it out. he should just learn the algs and then practice them to not forget and to practice his recog, and by doing that he would probably figure out the fingertricks for them.
i will know the fingertricks once i know the alg. I plan to learn at least 3 more algs by the end of friday
 

WoowyBaby

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i will know the fingertricks once i know the alg. I plan to learn at least 3 more algs by the end of friday
With your current rate of alg learning it's going to take more time than you have left in your entire life to learn 1LLL....
You're really never going to get there if it's just 3 algs on one day or another.

Please know I'm not trying to be rude, I just want you to consider that you have to change your process of learning algs and be learning 20+ algs every single day in order to learn all of it in a resonable time.
 

LukasCubes

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With your current rate of alg learning it's going to take more time than you have left in your entire life to learn 1LLL....
You're really never going to get there if it's just 3 algs on one day or another.

Please know I'm not trying to be rude, I just want you to consider that you have to change your process of learning algs and be learning 20+ algs every single day in order to learn all of it in a resonable time.
no this week is more unusual that usual so this weekend im going back to learning at least 10 algs a week
 

LukasCubes

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are you just going around learning whatever alg catches your eye? cause i'd say learn them in subsets. Tripod LL is 58 algs, so you could do that first

it's probably better to learn in subsets, cause instead of directly recognising the algorithm, you can filter out quite a lot of cases by recognising the subset
i am trust me i am just trying to see what ZBLL my COLL algs are in on the 1LLL pdf
 

xyzzy

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Doing 2000 solves in one sitting, once, is not the same as regularly doing 2000-solve sessions.

People seem to assume that big algsets have to be constantly reviewed in order for one to retain the algs but I think it's often also possible to just learn them really really well at the start - to the point where you'll remember them even without regular reviews.

I know that this is possible for ZBLL because this was my experience. If you look at the method I used to learn ZBLL, it was a very time efficient approach that had me recognizing and recalling algs at as fast a rate as possible. Since learning ZBLL I've taken a couple breaks from cubing where I did no reviews and basically didn't forget any algs (I temporarily forgot some, but usually was able to remember without looking up an alg sheet).
That's interesting.

My personal experience, having learnt ZBLL algs a lot more haphazardly, is that if I don't review regularly (or at least do lots of solves regularly), I'll find myself mixing some algs together. Algs that have similar triggers sometimes just blend into each other in my mind and I mess those up a fair amount. Quite a few times recently I've had to jog my memory by looking the algs up again. Now I'm wondering if it's too late to relearn ZBLL properly (and perhaps actually finish it this time).
 

Tao Yu

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That's interesting.

My personal experience, having learnt ZBLL algs a lot more haphazardly, is that if I don't review regularly (or at least do lots of solves regularly), I'll find myself mixing some algs together. Algs that have similar triggers sometimes just blend into each other in my mind and I mess those up a fair amount. Quite a few times recently I've had to jog my memory by looking the algs up again. Now I'm wondering if it's too late to relearn ZBLL properly (and perhaps actually finish it this time).

Yeah I know a lot of people who learned ZBLL who have had this experience too. I'd guess there would probably be some big differences in how we approached learning and reviewing the algs. I think the most important factor that led me to remembering my algs better than some other people is that my learning approach was completely focused on testing myself on random algs at as fast a rate as possible. For those who are not so familiar with my approach, I think the most important points are the following:

  • I would never learn an alg in isolation. This is simply because algs do not exist in isolation - getting confused with other algs is a part of learning algs. So I'd either learn a set of 12 algs or 8 algs or none at all.
  • My practice always consisted of testing myself on randomly selected algs and forcing myself to recall them without any help. Essentially forcing my brain to execute the mental process that you would have to execute during real solves. There was no difference in the way I initially learned the algs and the way I reviewed. I never went through an alg sheet and studied the algs in order - it was straight to testing myself on the algs in similar conditions to real solves.
  • Whenever I didn't know an alg I was able to instantly look up the alg (by pressing space on my trainer). People who use other trainers may not have been able to do this. For example, if you forget an alg while using Roman's trainer you have to look it up in a sheet. In my opinion, it is not good to have to switch your mind between different tasks like this.
  • I learned the algs on a virtual cube (see my video on this if you're not sure what this entails). I know that a lot of people don't like learning algs on virtual cubes, but I believe it was a very important reason as to why I was able to retain my algs so well. The removal of the need to scramble has two crucial advantages: First, it allowed me to test myself on about two or three times as many algs in the same amount of time, and second, it completely removed the need to switch my mind between different tasks - I could be 100% focused on uploading the algs into my brain for the entire duration of my training session.
  • It was important for me that when learning an alg, I would have the actual case in front of me, rather than performing an alg on a solved cube. This helps a lot for memorizing the moves of the alg because you can sort of see all the blocks merging together and eventually becoming solved. Thus I know I'm doing the right moves if it feels like the case is kind of solving itself. A lot of the time this means that if I get the first trigger correct, the rest of the alg feels intuitive. It is easy to ensure this happens for all algs by using the virtual cube on my trainer.
  • I did not use muscle memory to memorize algs - I always memorized the moves first. From my experience, algs memorized with muscle memory will always be forgotten after a break. Remembering stuff using your brain is always more reliable.
I would be interested in knowing what the differences between the ways we learn algs are, and how they may have contributed to our different experiences with recalling algs.
 
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