• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 35,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Quest to learn full ZBLL [Week 6]

Will I learn full 1LLL?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Ya Stupid


Results are only viewable after voting.

Nir1213

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2020
Messages
876
Location
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FveF-we6lcE
Doing 2000 solves in one sitting, once, is not the same as regularly doing 2000-solve sessions.


That's interesting.

My personal experience, having learnt ZBLL algs a lot more haphazardly, is that if I don't review regularly (or at least do lots of solves regularly), I'll find myself mixing some algs together. Algs that have similar triggers sometimes just blend into each other in my mind and I mess those up a fair amount. Quite a few times recently I've had to jog my memory by looking the algs up again. Now I'm wondering if it's too late to relearn ZBLL properly (and perhaps actually finish it this time).
oops well then i mean in one sitting lol

Yeah I know a lot of people who learned ZBLL who have had this experience too. I'd guess there would probably be some big differences in how we approached learning and reviewing the algs. I think the most important factor that led me to remembering my algs better than some other people is that my learning approach was completely focused on testing myself on random algs at as fast a rate as possible. For those who are not so familiar with my approach, I think the most important points are the following:


  • I did not use muscle memory to memorize algs - I always memorized the moves first. From my experience, algs memorized with muscle memory will always be forgotten after a break. Remembering stuff using your brain is always more reliable.
I would be interested in knowing what the differences between the ways we learn algs are, and how they may have contributed to our different experiences with recalling algs.
I mean muscle memory is useful, if you just train your muscle memory, come back, recall the muscle memory again, and do it again and again until the alg becomes subcounscious with muscle memory and you wont even think about it.
 

Tao Yu

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,138
Location
Ireland
WCA
2012YUTA01
YouTube
Visit Channel
I mean muscle memory is useful, if you just train your muscle memory, come back, recall the muscle memory again, and do it again and again until the alg becomes subcounscious with muscle memory and you wont even think about it.
I am well familiar with the process of learning algs by muscle memory. In my experience muscle memory will still almost always be forgotten after a long enough break.

Think about it like this: nobody would use muscle memory alone to memorize a password. Muscle memory is a technique that is simply not reliable enough for the task. While many people would know their passwords by muscle memory just so that they can type them faster, it's pretty much necessary to remember them in another way as well, such as simple mnemonics.

I do use muscle memory, but only if I have also memorized the moves of the alg first. Whenever I've taken a break, it has consistently been the case that I forget my muscle memory, but remember the moves.
 

Nir1213

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2020
Messages
876
Location
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FveF-we6lcE
I am well familiar with the process of learning algs by muscle memory. In my experience muscle memory will still almost always be forgotten after a long enough break.

Think about it like this: nobody would use muscle memory alone to memorize a password. Muscle memory is a technique that is simply not reliable enough for the task. While many people would know their passwords by muscle memory just so that they can type them faster, it's pretty much necessary to remember them in another way as well, such as simple mnemonics.

I do use muscle memory, but only if I have also memorized the moves of the alg first. Whenever I've taken a break, it has consistently been the case that I forget my muscle memory, but remember the moves.
i mean if it happens that to you doesnt mean it happens to others, but good point.
Funnily i have almost all the letters in my keyboard in my muscle memory

hello drkness my old friend
the sentence i did was without looking.
Missed the A tho.
 

Tao Yu

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,138
Location
Ireland
WCA
2012YUTA01
YouTube
Visit Channel
i mean if it happens that to you doesnt mean it happens to others, but good point.
Funnily i have almost all the letters in my keyboard in my muscle memory

hello drkness my old friend
the sentence i did was without looking.
Missed the A tho.
Keep in mind I specified that one is likely to forget muscle memory after a break. Being able to touch type is normal since you're likely to have to do it every day.

It is true that not everyone will have the same experience as me, but I would bet that when it comes to larger algsets such as ZBLL most people would agree with me. When it comes to small sets such as PLL and OLL, yeah I think a lot of people could remember the muscle memory even after a break.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
111
Week 3 is here, nothing much from last week sccomplished, ima go learn some algs now lol.
I've been looking at your progress all this time and I have only 1 thing to tell you. It is not worth to learn 1LLL in 1 go. They have been divided into subsets(like Tripod, ZBLL, etc.) and then into further subsets(like Pi,H,etc.) for a reason. The people who divided them into subsets were/are not mad they did it for a reason.
And your average is 18-ish and 1LLL is not worth at 18 average. Start 1LLL learning when u reach sub-10.
And also let the algs develop more, let them get better
For the time being I would recommend to get better at F2L and Cross and drill all your algs.
Also check out @Zubin Park 's guide to become sub-x till then


I know you have said this
actually that number is 5428776672646939786752758742674574575229456582956555876576854785025717766471814631468648768748487784781347808645848787554675467548748675854487458675478547865486748675687147782258527154105478657865876144676476547675867678687678248676 times
times but still this was my advice. Your wish to listen or not. So many people are telling you this but you aren't listening.
 

BenChristman1

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2019
Messages
1,852
Location
The Land of 11,842 Lakes
WCA
2019CHRI11
YouTube
Visit Channel
I've been looking at your progress all this time and I have only 1 thing to tell you. It is not worth to learn 1LLL in 1 go. They have been divided into subsets(like Tripod, ZBLL, etc.) and then into further subsets(like Pi,H,etc.) for a reason. The people who divided them into subsets were/are not mad they did it for a reason.
And your average is 18-ish and 1LLL is not worth at 18 average. Start 1LLL learning when u reach sub-10.
And also let the algs develop more, let them get better
For the time being I would recommend to get better at F2L and Cross and drill all your algs.
Also check out @Zubin Park 's guide to become sub-x till then


I know you have said this

times but still this was my advice. Your wish to listen or not. So many people are telling you this but you aren't listening.
But he “likes learning algs.” :rolleyes:
That was sarcasm in case you couldn’t tell. I agree with you completely.
 

xyzzy

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
2,056
I've been looking at your progress all this time and I have only 1 thing to tell you. It is not worth to learn 1LLL in 1 go. They have been divided into subsets(like Tripod, ZBLL, etc.) and then into further subsets(like Pi,H,etc.) for a reason. The people who divided them into subsets were/are not mad they did it for a reason.
The 1LLL sheet OP is learning from is already categorised by OLL and corner permutation, and he's said he's going through the sheet in order, so yes, he is already learning by nicely-categorised subsets.

Possibly not the most meaningful ones, and definitely not the optimal order to maximise benefit, but you seem to be thinking OP is going at 1LLL in a completely random order and no, it's not nearly that haphazard.

And your average is 18-ish and 1LLL is not worth at 18 average. Start 1LLL learning when u reach sub-10.
And also let the algs develop more, let them get better
For the time being I would recommend to get better at F2L and Cross and drill all your algs.
This is clearly a multi-year endeavour. There's more than enough time to get better at F2L and cross while also learning 1LLL algs.

Actually, don't take it from me; take it from Jabari:
context: this person probably averages 20-25
/u/Aidoni05 on Reddit said:
Hey Jabari, I'm somebody who loves learning algs for 1lll cases, but most other cubers I talk to say I shouldn't even think about it until I'm much faster. What do you think I should do, should I dedicate all my time to fundamentals or should I keep learning algs?
Jabari said:
It's ignorance combined with laziness. Pople don't appreciate the deication it takes to master algs, so they think that they can just wait until they're faster not knowing the earlier you start the better you'll be when your actually fast af.
(I don't entirely agree with this, for the record, but let's say I'm playing devil's advocate here.)
 
Last edited:

LukasCubes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
325
Location
West Virginia
Then learn COLL and WV and all the useful alg sets
i already know full COLL and like 2 WV but ima hold off on WV until i get bored with 1LLL and take a day or 2 off to learn something else like WV. I am taking a few days off the quest right now to gen algs for an alg set I am working on.

The 1LLL sheet OP is learning from is already categorised by OLL and corner permutation, and he's said he's going through the sheet in order, so yes, he is already learning by nicely-categorised subsets.

Possibly not the most meaningful ones, and definitely not the optimal order to maximise benefit, but you seem to be thinking OP is going at 1LLL in a completely random order and no, it's not nearly that haphazard.


This is clearly a multi-year endeavour. There's more than enough time to get better at F2L and cross while also learning 1LLL algs.

Actually, don't take it from me; take it from Jabari:
context: this person probably averages 20-25



(I don't entirely agree with this, for the record, but let's say I'm playing devil's advocate here.)
I average 16-20 on 3x3. If it was me back in the summer, that'd be 20-25 but i am currently 16-20 right now
 

xyzzy

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
2,056
I average 16-20 on 3x3. If it was me back in the summer, that'd be 20-25 but i am currently 16-20 right now
What on earth is up with you people quoting the entirety of multi-part posts instead of just the part you want to reply to?

Anyway, the "context" was meant to describe the person who asked the question on Reddit, not you.
 

LukasCubes

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
325
Location
West Virginia
What on earth is up with you people quoting the entirety of multi-part posts instead of just the part you want to reply to?

Anyway, the "context" was meant to describe the person who asked the question on Reddit, not you.
Yeah i'm too lazy for that.
 

Llewelys

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
156
Location
France
I don't know if you've seen it, but this video should interest you:

Jabari Nuruddin is one of the closest persons to know 1LLL
 
Top