QUBAMI 3D SUDOKU (3x3) - solution guide

[opi50]

Hello.

Does anyone own a QUBAMI cube that cannot be solved with the method described in the thread "Review QUBAMI 3D SUDOKU (3x3)"? (page 3, posted by 'opi50' on 05-15-2015). https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?51096-QUBAMI-3D-Sudoku-%283x3%29/page3 , please see the attached pictures.

I developed this method while making my own QUBAMI puzzle coming from the 3D SUDOKUs. When I figured out, that there are only two possible configurations for a 3 color 3x3x3 cube with adjacent (same color) faces, I started thinking that the whole collection of QUBAMIs might only be a bunch of combinations of colors, symbols, and finally, only the two two possible 3D SUDOKU solves.
The parity cases, that need to appear because the 3D SUDOKUs have 3 triples of equivalent edge pieces just support the idea of a very difficult puzzle, because they are mixed again and again, also in the same puzzle. Also the challenge 5 has a little parity issue. But all these are not real "parities". They are provoked by the multiple equivalent pieces. And these multiple equivalent pieces remain the same for the 3D SUDOKU solves, where they are much more difficult to be identified than in the 3 color solve. Thus challenge #1 to #4 are basically the same. And knowing the pattern, the challenge #5 is the easiest solve.

I am sure that anyone can solve any QUBAMI with this solution guide within minutes, because they are all a combination of two superimposed, turned 3D 3x3 SUDOKU solves (same or different). But once having them identified, you just have to combine them correctly. That´s not a big deal.

I think, the only information required for the solution of a QUBAMI is the center scheme with their colors and symbols (R,L,F,U,D and B). That should be enough.

Best regards.

Olaf

 

[Kelvin Stott]

Olaf, as I tried to explain to you, your method only works for a small fraction of the puzzles in our database because you have overlooked some possibilities.

But in any case, what are you trying to achieve here? To spoil everyone else's fun? Would you walk into a shop and complete all the sudoku puzzles to "help" people? People like puzzles because they want the challenge of solving it for themselves, not handed to them on a plate...

 

[opi50]

Hello Kelvin,

thanks for the comment, that of course will be answered.

Just to clarify your questions:

a) I am just offering an alternative solution method for QUBAMI puzzles. That cannot be a problem. Nobody would be able to solve a QUBAMI puzzle without knowing, how to solve a Rubik´s cube. There are thousands of solution guides and tutorials for Rubik´s cubes in bookstores, publications and the internet. If people would buy Rubik´s cubes just to solve them by themselves, nothing of all that would be available and no one would buy a QUBAMI puzzle, that of course, also wouldn´t exist.

b) I explained very detailed in your “QUBAMI 3D SUDOKU (3x3)” Review thread, that my solution guide can work for 3 x 36 x 4 x 36 = 15,552 QUBAMI puzzles, or even more of them, considering:
1) 3 different combinations of the two superimposed 3D SUDOKU solves
2) 36 positions of 6 different centers above 6 centers (6x6)
3) 4 turned positions of each scheme above each other (0°, 90°, 180° and 270°)
4) 3!x3! (6x6) = 36 combinations of colors and symbols in each color scheme,
++ special colors (like the green I already saw)
++ any type of mirrored cases

c) I also have written, that I have seen the “Tony Fisher Unboxing and first solve” video, which is the No. 1 in the "3D SUDOKU reviews on Youtube" list on the qubami.com website. He says for example:
1) “The price is also high, because it has "not" been produced in huge numbers.” (min 1:00 to 1:05),
2) “The chance to by the same puzzle is many thousands to one.” (That meets exactly my calculation)
3) “Kelvin cleverly has produced the puzzles so that "most of them" are different.” (min. 3:32 to 3:50). (So "not huge numbers", but "most of them" are different)
Thus, it seems to confirm, that my solution guide may work for all QUBAMIs, although you cannot agree. Sorry, but that is the only thing, I want to prove, or as you say "achieve here".

d) This is a cubing forum, and all members are posting their thoughts, solves, algorithms, tricks, puzzle reviews and comments. And this is just another one. I really do not see any problem with that.

e) I also wrote in my solution guide, that, of course, no one has to give up or will loose the traditional “trial and error” or "trying to find parities" method to solve a QUBAMI 3D SUDOKU. By the way, many people can solve a Rubiks´s cube in different ways (layer by layer, cross first, corners first, etc.) and I never heard about, that anyone lost the interest in solving a Rubik´s cube, just because someone was publishing a new alternative solution method.

f) to see, if I really overlooked "some" possibilities, as you say, I´ll keep waiting until someone will challenge me, or will prove an error in my solution guide.

g) For sure, I will not go to any shop to solve anyone's 3D SUDOKU or QUBAMI puzzle, but the solution guide is already available for download.

Best regards.

Olaf

 

[Kelvin Stott]

Olaf,

What part of "your method only works for a small fraction of the puzzles in our database because you have overlooked some possibilities", don't you understand?

1. The fact that the numbered positions in your "solution" are non-equivalent, already tells you that your solution is incomplete. Or at best, it is pure pot luck, since you would have to guess which colour and symbol corresponds to each specific number. Guessing and trying again and again isn't exactly a smart algorithm, even if you think it is complete ...

2. To be honest, I find it quite arrogant that you claim to know better than we do about what is in our own database, while you have seen just one or two variations on youtube.

3. I also find it quite arrogant that you think other people need your help. Indeed nobody has asked for it. And many people have already managed to solve their Qubami puzzle without your help, and they already enjoy the status they have *earned* for solving it by themselves - without your help.

4. The idea that nobody would buy a Rubik's Cube (or indeed a Qubami) without the solution being published, is quite frankly ridiculous. I believe Rubik's Cube was already selling tens (or even hundreds) of millions of units before any generic solution was published.

5. Again, the whole point of a puzzle is to give people the personal satisfaction of finding solutions for themselves, not to follow some robotic algorithm. Perhaps you should allow people that simple pleasure?

6. The whole point of Qubami in particular is to give people their own personal, unique and individual challenge. Therefore, the solution to somebody else's puzzle is frankly none of your business (unless of course they ask for help - but then they would lose the recognition for solving it).

7. The fact that you are effectively spoiling the fun of others, without even owning one of these puzzles yourself, I think is rather antisocial and reprehensible behaviour. You are merely undermining the achievement of those who have managed to solve the puzzle by themselves, and I find it especially sad that this has been your only contribution to this community.

But that's just my opinion...

Thanks for your understanding. And by the way, I think you posted this in the wrong forum, this is supposed to be for example solves, i.e., specific scrambles.

K.

 

[opi50]

Hello Kelvin,

thanks again for your comments.

So, if all what you wrote about my "QUBAMI solution guide" is correct, why don´t you publish here for an “Example solve” the center scheme of one of all the QUBAMIs that cannot be solved with that "solution guide". That would be easier.

“That is and was my purpose in this thread”

Of course I would need the R, L, F, U, D and B specification for the center pieces, indicating colors and symbols like:
R = blue / cross
L= yellow / dot
F = pink / circle
etc.
Please refer to the attached picture (at the end of this post).

Before I start to apply the solution guide, I will publish a picture showing the 3D SUDOU scheme, just with centers, so that you can confirm it. And, because I do not know the rest of that particular QUBAMI puzzle, I won´t be able to do anything else but applying my method.

If you are right, and I cannot solve it, I will declare here and in the other thread, that my assumptions were wrong, if not, I will publish a detailed description of the solving procedure to prove, that it work's.

That´s the reason, why I have posted here in the “Example Solves Forum”. If there´s another forum, that would be better, please advise. Of course I can open another thread elsewhere.

By the way, It was You, who started the same discussion again, that we stopped before in another thread, not me.

Best regards.

Olaf

 

[Kelvin Stott]

If you are right, and I cannot solve it, I will declare here and in the other thread, that my assumptions were wrong, if not, I will publish a detailed description of the solving procedure to prove, that it work's.

Publish what you like, and I'm happy to let others judge.

I already told you that your example solution which you posted was incorrect and did not match our database, and I also explained to you that's because the centers alone are not sufficient to define a unique solution (is that so hard to believe?). If you don't believe me that's fine, but I don't feel I need to prove anything to you, so I'm not going to be posting any configurations. You'll just have to buy one of our cubes to check for yourself, sorry.

And as for "you started this discussion" - actually no, but I am ending it ...

I'm done here.

 

[opi50]

Thanks a lot Kelvin, for your prompt response.

Final remarks:

Sorry, but I did not ask you to prove anything, I only asked you, to challenge my solution guide. If that´s not possible for you - OK, no problem. I fully accept that.

Yes, I told you, that I maybe made a mistake reading the center scheme from the "unboxing video", but the solution is a solved QUNAMI puzzle scheme (see attached picture). Until now, unfortunately I have not received any comment from you on that “revised” solve.

Short description of the solution:
The centers define the color and symbol 3 x 2 faces scheme (adjacent) and therefore the position of all corner pieces. Thus, the two applied 3D SUDOKU schemes are defined. If all QUBAMIs have only one unique solve, then it has to be a combination of both of them. That´s the theory, that has neither been disimproved nor commented constructively by you until now.

Best regards.

Olaf

 

[Kelvin Stott]

So now I look at your latest example:

And look, the Qubami configuration below has exactly the same arrangement of centers as your latest example, but the solution is completely different:

And this is just one example, there are many other possible solutions based on your latest example in our database. So now you have absolute proof that your method doesn't work. Now don't you feel a bit silly? As I have been telling you, the centers alone are not sufficient to define a unique solution. If only you would listen...

And that really is my last post, I have wasted enough time arguing with you already. :-(

K.

 

[opi50]

Thank you Kelvin,

That is great! I am really very surprised. WOW! Thank you very much!!!

No, I don´t feel silly, I´m feeling more confused or irritated. So, obviously there really should be missing something. That´s of course bad news :-(

I decided to make both QUBAMIs. My virtual one and your database model. Then I will get back to you. But that will take a little time.

Congratulations for your GOAL!!! Respect.

Best regards.

Olaf

 

[Kelvin Stott]

No worries, thanks for responding so gracefully, and apologies for losing my patience.

You can probably figure out the discrepancies by reading some of the hints in my earlier posts. But if you do figure out a general solution for all Qubami (which I'm sure you are capable of), may I ask you to please keep it to yourself, or discuss with me in private. That way other people can continue to enjoy the challenge of solving their own cube for themselves, and earn the status that goes with it, while those who have already solved it can still feel special.

So if you are just looking for recognition that you can come up with a general solution, don't worry I can give you that (or you can always get this by solving a Qubami of your own), but please don't spoil the fun for everyone else. And remember that when it comes to puzzles, people want problems, not solutions, because they want to *be* the solution, not have it handed to them.

Let's keep any further discussion on this offline, please: [email protected]

Thanks again for your understanding.

K.

 

[opi50]

Hello Kelvin,

thanks a lot for your respectable answer.

I think, I understand perfectly the purpose of your response. Of course, I do not have any problem stopping this or any discussion in forums. And, it was never the intention to spoil anyone's fun. I always mentioned, as well in the solution guide, that the QUBAMI is a beautiful puzzle and that an alternative solve would “not” take away the opportunity for the “traditional” solve. I did not publish anything in social networks or Youtube, etc., just in cubing forums, to see, if it may work.

As I mentioned in one of my first posts, we are running a very small business for applied mathematics here in Mexico. Applied mathematics is something additional to the common education and a very small and difficult business. Also, most of the parents and as well my pupils are running on a small economical budget. Thus, when one of my pupils asked me about the QUBAMI puzzles, I started to investigate, if there might be a possibility for him, to make his own, self-made QUBAMI type puzzle (e.g. as a sticker mod project). And, please remember my first post, we found those Oliver stickers. They are very expensive (+shipment) and (sorry for saying that frankly), quite ugly. You can buy a 3x3x3 magic cube in Mexico for less than 3 USD, and with some mods and lube it´s not too bad for such projects. And for sticker projects we use laser printable, self adhesive, white vinyl sheets (letter format). Imagine how many stickers you van cut out of them... Our cubes, of course, will not win any “beauty award”, but for the mathematical purpose they are excellent.

The reason I started the conversation with you was quite simple: Thinking about, how to make that own, individual QUBAMI type puzzle, I had this funny Idea about a possible, general solution. And it appeared to me like a brain teaser, a riddle, that needed to be solved. I think, I am close to the solution, but don´t worry, I will not publish it and also will give only some hints to pupils, being interested, to find it out by themselves. Like you did with me.

Thanks a lot again. I learned a lot from you, Kelvin Stott.

Best regards,

Olaf