# Ortega vs Guimond

#### Siraj A.

##### Member
I got my 2x2 I think almost 2 weeks ago, and I have an average of about 11 seconds. I was thinking about learning Ortega method, but some people say Guimond is faster. So what do you all use and which is better? Thanks.

#### ExoCorsair

##### Member
People have gotten sub-4 averages with Ortega. It's just practice.

#### Siraj A.

##### Member
Well what do you use and what's your average Jon?

#### ExoCorsair

##### Member
I average 7-8 and use Ortega.

#### philkt731

##### Member
I use mostly Guimond and average around 5 seconds, usually under. I think that if you are serious about it, you should learn Guimond so that you are more versatile because sometimes scrambles are better for Guimond, sometimes theyre better for ortega (once you've learned Guimond, Ortega does not have any more algos except corner orientation wchic are adopted from 3x3 and will come easy to you). I don't use Ortega as my main syystem ffirst of all because it requires more moves and second because I don't like performing the orientation algs on my 2x2.

#### masterofthebass

##### Premium Member
if you're completely serious about 2x2, go for OFOTA. I'm thinking about learning it over the christmas break, and I'll update my progress if I do it. I average about 6-7 with ortega. Ortega can be a very fast method, since most of Japanese cubers use it.

#### philkt731

##### Member
I was also thinking about learning OFOTA but I realized that most of the time it is easier to do Guimond and look ahead to splitting the colors because some of the algs are quite long and aren't super fast, but I might still learn it so that when I catually do get one face of opposite colors, I can do it then, since Guimond wouldn't be the best choice there.

#### Erik

##### Member
When you really want serious, just go with EG.
I use Guimond and Ortega plus about 5 other systems/tricks to solve. If the first face is really easy sometimes it's better to do Ortega, but mostly Guimond is faster/fewer moves in my experience

#### TheBB

##### Member
Ortega can be a very fast method, since most of Japanese cubers use it.
I fail to understand this implication. Maybe you should've rephrased a little .

#### Erik

##### Member
Ortega can be a very fast method, since most of Japanese cubers use it.
I fail to understand this implication. Maybe you should've rephrased a little .
Indeed it's a fast method, indeed a lot of japanese cubers use it. But it's not fast BECAUSE japanese use it, that would imply that everything japanese cubers use is fast.
Sorry I was bombarded with these things at school today... (again )

#### Kenneth

##### Not Alot
Erik is right about that Gouimond in general is faster than Ortega. But it's not as easy to learn Guimond as Ortega. It's not about learnng the algos but to master the method.

Once you are at advanced Guimond, then that's it, you can't get deeper into it in that direction. But if you use Ortega there are EG (I used to know all cases but quickly lost 50% of them again =) and also some easier half way to EG methods (I got one 2.3 step** method based on Ortega that uses only 21 algs =)

** 2.3 because in 50% of the solves you have to end in R2 F2 R2, that's the 0.3 step =)

And after all that, I'm using "the Waterman method" = 1 layer + CLL

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