• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 35,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

TDM

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
7,009
Likes
319
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
WCA
2013MEND03
YouTube
TDM028
For M2, DB as buffer makes a lot more sense, because for setup moves instead of doing B moves you are doing F moves, which are easier to finger trick. I really don't see why you would use DF/FD, except that that is how the method was developed. But if you are new to learning then it makes a lot of sense to learn it that way. Are there any cons to DB/BD as buffer?
You're right, and tbh this would probably be faster. But there are a few reasons why you might not want to do this:

1) Your buffer pieces is hard to see, which means you will need to spend some time peeking at the entire DB piece to determine how you're starting your memo. DF is much more visible.

2) DB is a worse buffer for 3-style, which is something that you will want to switch to in the future. You want most of your algorithms to involve "nicer" pieces, i.e. ones on the U/F/R layers. This makes DF better than DB as a 3-style buffer.

(However, UF is a better buffer than both of them, and UR or UB are good choices too. If you want to switch to 3-style, you might find you want to change buffer anyway, so this second point would no longer be a disadvantage. In fact, the M2 algs for DB buffer work well as comms for 3-style UF buffer, so it might actually be an advantage of using DB for M2.)

3) Fewer resources are available, though everything is quite intuitive anyway, so this shouldn't be much of a problem. It certainly won't be a problem in the long term.
 

Aerma

Premium Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Messages
1,190
Likes
476
Location
Galar Region
WCA
2015MANN01
YouTube
Aerma
If I ever get more than one flipped edge or more than one twisted corner in a scramble, I memo them visually, yes. I think Aerma may be getting confused with terminology though, by "visual" I'm guessing she means the visual story that you put in a room. @Aerma , normally people use the term visual to refer to basically what I would call a brute force memorization, where you try to take a mental snapshot of the actual cube, and remember whatever relevant pieces from that mental snapshot.
Oh yes, I meant images :)
Also, if I get a letter pair that I can't quickly think of an image for (maybe like QD or something), what should I do?
 

TDM

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
7,009
Likes
319
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
WCA
2013MEND03
YouTube
TDM028
Oh yes, I meant images :)
Also, if I get a letter pair that I can't quickly think of an image for (maybe like QD or something), what should I do?
After solves, you can look up ideas for these bad images, if you can remember what they were. There are some tables/lists here, here and here, and I know I've seen one or two others around.

But during the solve... Personally, I take the first thing I can think of and trying to force that into my memo, even if it's not very good. You don't want to waste much time thinking of a better image when you can do that outside of your timed solves.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
240
Likes
88
Location
Australia
I and S are targets in the M-slice, so they require some slightly longer algorithms that are different to the usual structure of a conjugated M2. Here are some algs you can use, note they are just inverses of each other:

I: D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
S: M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'

Remember that if S is the second target in a letter pair, you shoot to I instead, and similarly if I is the second target in a letter pair, shoot to S instead.

Addendum: If you are interested, what actually happens is that the alg for I is the commutator [D : [M', U R2 U']] with an M2 attached to the end. The comm cycles the buffer (DF) > I (FU) > helper (UB), so the piece in the buffer is successfully shot to I as expected, finally the M2 brings the helper piece back to UB from DF, and offsetting the M slice as desired, ready for the next target. You get a similar effect for S, except the comm is instead [D : [U R2 U', M']], the inverse cycle with the M2 at the front instead.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
466
Likes
274
Location
United States
WCA
2017OSTD02
I and S are targets in the M-slice, so they require some slightly longer algorithms that are different to the usual structure of a conjugated M2. Here are some algs you can use, note they are just inverses of each other:

I: D M' U R2 U' M U R2 U' D' M2
S: M2 D U R2 U' M' U R2 U' M D'

Remember that if S is the second target in a letter pair, you shoot to I instead, and similarly if I is the second target in a letter pair, shoot to S instead.

Addendum: If you are interested, what actually happens is that the alg for I is the commutator [D : [M', U R2 U']] with an M2 attached to the end. The comm cycles the buffer (DF) > I (FU) > helper (UB), so the piece in the buffer is successfully shot to I as expected, finally the M2 brings the helper piece back to UB from DF, and offsetting the M slice as desired, ready for the next target. You get a similar effect for S, except the comm is instead [D : [U R2 U', M']], the inverse cycle with the M2 at the front instead.
Thank you!
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
240
Likes
88
Location
Australia
Looking for a nice comm for the cycle (UBL FDL LUF), or buffer > L > F in Speffz if you prefer that notation. Move optimal would be nice, but obviously it's speed optimal is more important here. I don't mind rotations too much as long as they aren't extreme/overly cumbersome, and I generally prefer 1 move conjugations if setups are needed (because I'm a close-minded person).
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Messages
1,013
Likes
624
Location
Utah
WCA
2016BAIR01
Looking for a nice comm for the cycle (UBL FDL LUF), or buffer > L > F in Speffz if you prefer that notation. Move optimal would be nice, but obviously it's speed optimal is more important here. I don't mind rotations too much as long as they aren't extreme/overly cumbersome, and I generally prefer 1 move conjugations if setups are needed (because I'm a close-minded person).
I persononally would use
[U' D' R : [R D' R' , U2]]
I feel like it’s somwhat speed optimal
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
633
Likes
150
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
WCA
2010MATT02
YouTube
Keroma03
Looking for a nice comm for the cycle (UBL FDL LUF), or buffer > L > F in Speffz if you prefer that notation. Move optimal would be nice, but obviously it's speed optimal is more important here. I don't mind rotations too much as long as they aren't extreme/overly cumbersome, and I generally prefer 1 move conjugations if setups are needed (because I'm a close-minded person).
Maybe not exactly what you asked for, but these are regripless:
U' R U D : [ R' D' R , U2 ]
U D2 R : [ R' D R D' , B2 ]
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
690
Likes
239
Location
Yo
WCA
2013GHOD01
YouTube
abunickabhi
Hi,

If you are starting out I suggest out this tutorial by J perm

An advanced tutorial is by Timothy Goh.

And a comprehensive coverup is by me, at my BLD Tutorial playlist (Shameless self-promotion)

Hope it helps to get you started!
Good luck!
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
52
Likes
41
Location
Belgium
WCA
2014RONG01
Coming from OP corners how long is a reasonable time to learn full 3-style for corners on UFR?
Currently know about 1/3 of the comms in about 2 weeks (might take me 10 seconds to figure out the comm I learned but meh)
 
Top