#### Cale S

##### Member
There was this one guy (can't remember the name) who did the 9x9 BLD. How many cubes in MBLD is that equivalent to?
lol "this one guy"

12*20 + 3*24 + 20 + 8 = about 340 targets which is like 17 cubes, but 9x9 is much harder to memorize than a lot of 3x3's

#### Berd

##### Member
There was this one guy (can't remember the name) who did the 9x9 BLD. How many cubes in MBLD is that equivalent to?
It was Roman haha. Centers are a lot harder to memorise tho.

#### newtonbase

I'm learning advanced M2 and trying to use an extra set up to simplify tricky pieces. For BD UL I did a D' to turn BD into RD but it didn't work. Is there a rule for these set ups that I'm not aware of?

#### TDM

##### Member
I'm learning advanced M2 and trying to use an extra set up to simplify tricky pieces. For BD UL I did a D' to turn BD into RD but it didn't work. Is there a rule for these set ups that I'm not aware of?
I don't know advanced M2, but if DF is still your buffer, then your D' is moving your buffer from where it should be. Maybe try something like F D' F' (or y' R D' R' y)?

#### MatejMuzatko

##### Member
I'm learning advanced M2 and trying to use an extra set up to simplify tricky pieces. For BD UL I did a D' to turn BD into RD but it didn't work. Is there a rule for these set ups that I'm not aware of?
You can use B set up, just make sure you aren't moving your buffer and your 3rd piece. I use B2 U2 setup to M' "method". I am willing to add M "method" soon. If you want to, you can have a read here

#### newtonbase

I don't know advanced M2, but if DF is still your buffer, then your D' is moving your buffer from where it should be. Maybe try something like F D' F' (or y' R D' R' y)?
Of course. No D (or F) only set ups makes sense. Many thanks.

#### biscuit

##### Member
I just did a edges only solve. Generated a edges only scramble on CStimer. I memoed and executed but when I stopped the timer the edges were all correctly placed and orientated but the corners were not. I tried going through it again and it looked like my J-perm was messing it up. The scramble is B' L2 U2 L2 F L2 F' L2 D2 L2 F' D' L' B2 F2 D U' F L' B2. I solve yellow on top red in front. RB is the first target so to solce it I did B' D2 F2 jperm F2 D2 B. This leaves BUL and BUR unsolved. Why is this and what do I need to do? J-perm is what is use right?

#### h2f

If you solve with Old Pochmann you cant do setups using B/B' or F/F'. For RB I did setup: d (or E if you like) L (to shot target to UL) and Tperm L' d'

Last edited:

#### biscuit

##### Member
If you solve with Old Pochmann you cant do setups using B/B' or F/F'. For RB I did setup: d (or E if you like) L (to shot target to UL) and Tperm L' d'
So you can't do R F and B moves?... Hmm. Ok! Thank you!

#### TDM

##### Member
So you can't do R F and B moves?... Hmm. Ok! Thank you!
Nope, and you can't use U moves either. This is because you can't break apart the top-right 1x1x3 block, since those pieces need to be kept exactly where they are. You're restricted to D, Dw, L and Lw.

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
I'm a novice 3BLD solver using M2/OP. I am trying to save some moves by untwisting corners at the end rather than solving each as two targets. How do people memorize this? I tried doing twists/flips first and just remembering them visually, but I don't like that because it twists the buffer and I have to spend time checking for twisted corners before tracing my cycles. However, when doing them at the end I keep forgetting or getting the twist wrong. Looking for good memo ideas.

#### TDM

##### Member
I'm a novice 3BLD solver using M2/OP. I am trying to save some moves by untwisting corners at the end rather than solving each as two targets. How do people memorize this? I tried doing twists/flips first and just remembering them visually, but I don't like that because it twists the buffer and I have to spend time checking for twisted corners before tracing my cycles. However, when doing them at the end I keep forgetting or getting the twist wrong. Looking for good memo ideas.
I memo visually in single BLD (and as two targets in Multi). You don't actually need to know the orientation of the buffer, since it depends on the other corners.

For example, setup with [F2 R y: R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L]. I would see that the DFL corner needs to be twisted CW. Now I know I could twist with z (left antisune) (right antisune) z'. But if you do that, you twist another corner, in this case BDL. So what I would do is put the buffer into that spot by doing B before the algorithm. So the way in which I would solve it would be:
B z L' U2 L U L' U L R U2 R' U' R U' R' z' B'.

... Hopefully that makes sense. Also, if I had multiple twisted corners, I would twist each of them individually along with the buffer.

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
I memo visually in single BLD (and as two targets in Multi). You don't actually need to know the orientation of the buffer, since it depends on the other corners.

For example, setup with [F2 R y: R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L]. I would see that the DFL corner needs to be twisted CW. Now I know I could twist with z (left antisune) (right antisune) z'. But if you do that, you twist another corner, in this case BDL. So what I would do is put the buffer into that spot by doing B before the algorithm. So the way in which I would solve it would be:
B z L' U2 L U L' U L R U2 R' U' R U' R' z' B'.

... Hopefully that makes sense. Also, if I had multiple twisted corners, I would twist each of them individually along with the buffer.
Thanks TDM. I have been doing something similar, setting up the piece to UFL and doing doublesexy2 L' doublesexy'2 L. Works for me but my problem is memo. I want to do this step last so that I don't have to spend time checking for twists before I trace my cycles. But visual memo isn't working for me - by the end of the solve I have forgotten which corners and/or which directions. So I'm looking for a memo tip. I've tried adding extra letters but I tend to mix them up with corner cycles, or mix up the edge flips and corner twists. I figured someone must have worked out some good method already.

#### TDM

##### Member
Thanks TDM. I have been doing something similar, setting up the piece to UFL and doing doublesexy2 L' doublesexy'2 L. Works for me but my problem is memo. I want to do this step last so that I don't have to spend time checking for twists before I trace my cycles. But visual memo isn't working for me - by the end of the solve I have forgotten which corners and/or which directions. So I'm looking for a memo tip. I've tried adding extra letters but I tend to mix them up with corner cycles, or mix up the edge flips and corner twists. I figured someone must have worked out some good method already.
Oh. Yeah, visual memo is hard to remember for a while, which is why I only use it for single BLD. If you're having trouble, try twisting the corners at the start of the solve, rather than at the end. You can do it in the same way but your buffer is just somewhere else. The buffer's orientation still isn't important (but the cube's orientation is!).

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Oh. Yeah, visual memo is hard to remember for a while, which is why I only use it for single BLD. If you're having trouble, try twisting the corners at the start of the solve, rather than at the end. You can do it in the same way but your buffer is just somewhere else. The buffer's orientation still isn't important (but the cube's orientation is!).
If I do the twists at the start, the buffer piece gets twisted, so I have to work out which sticker will end up on top before I start to trace the corner cycles. So I would need to spend time on an extra pass over the cube looking for twists. I could do that, but it's exactly what I was trying to avoid.

#### TDM

##### Member
If I do the twists at the start, the buffer piece gets twisted, so I have to work out which sticker will end up on top before I start to trace the corner cycles. So I would need to spend time on an extra pass over the cube looking for twists. I could do that, but it's exactly what I was trying to avoid.
Twist the UBL corner, even if it's in a different place on the cube. That way you don't need to trace any corner cycles.
Here's an example.

R' U' L D2 L2 D2 L U' D2 B2 U2 D2 R F2 L D2 L2 D2 L

Memo is FUL-LFD-DBR-UFR-BUR-UFR.

We need to twist DFR. Our buffer is in DBR. So to twist DFR and DBR, I'd do:
x2 (L' U' L U' L' U2 L) (R U R' U R U2 R') x2
You can then continue solving the same targets as memo, without tracing anything.
alg.cubing.net.

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Twist the UBL corner, even if it's in a different place on the cube. That way you don't need to trace any corner cycles.
Here's an example.

R' U' L D2 L2 D2 L U' D2 B2 U2 D2 R F2 L D2 L2 D2 L

Memo is FUL-LFD-DBR-UFR-BUR-UFR.

We need to twist DFR. Our buffer is in DBR. So to twist DFR and DBR, I'd do:
x2 (L' U' L U' L' U2 L) (R U R' U R U2 R') x2
You can then continue solving the same targets as memo, without tracing anything.
Got it, thanks. I would need to remember the position of the buffer piece though, and think about how to rotate to set it up, and how that rotation affects the position of the twisted corner, and how to then set up the twisted corner if it's not already adjacent to the buffer piece. Perhaps that all comes naturally to an experienced BLDer but I suspect for me the effort would massively outweigh the time taken to do an extra Y-perm to twist as two targets

I'm considering using the letter Y to indicate twists, along with the letter indicating the position of the U/D face sticker. So for your example, at the end of my corner memo, I would append YK. After solving all the cycles I would then do F2 to set up and twist it ccw with (U R U' R')2 L' (R U R' U')2 L. What do you think?

#### TDM

##### Member
Got it, thanks. I would need to remember the position of the buffer piece though, and think about how to rotate to set it up, and how that rotation affects the position of the twisted corner, and how to then set up the twisted corner if it's not already adjacent to the buffer piece. Perhaps that all comes naturally to an experienced BLDer but I suspect for me the effort would massively outweigh the time taken to do an extra Y-perm to twist as two targets

I'm considering using the letter Y to indicate twists, along with the letter indicating the position of the U/D face sticker. So for your example, at the end of my corner memo, I would append YK. After solving all the cycles I would then do F2 to set up and twist it ccw with (U R U' R')2 L' (R U R' U')2 L. What do you think?
Now I think about it... I think in the past, when I was first starting to learn BLD, I did twist corners are two cycles. That could be better for now. I would definitely suggest coming back to twisting them using algs later on though!

This is actually quite a good idea, since it would be good for multi as well. If you can remember which ones are for edges and which ones for corners (maybe use Z for edges?), that could be a good system. Try that out and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, then you can always go back to two Y perms.