• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

OLL/PLL Where to start?

Status
Not open for further replies.

nolonger

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
7
I'd like to know from you guys where I can start learning OLL and PLL.

I just "finished" learning how to do F2L intuitively and now I need to learn how to do OLL and PLL, but I'm lost with so many formulas. I know learning one at a time is what you'll most likely suggest, but how would I go about doing that if the probability of me falling in the same case twice is low? Any help is appreciated.

The method I use for the last layer is to first build the cross, then place corners in the right place and finally flip them so they face the right direction.
 

AndyRoo789

Premium Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
418
2 look PLL and 2 look OLL. Then eventually move on to full PLL and OLL.
And by the way, people usually call them "algorithms", not "formulas".
 

nolonger

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
7
Thanks, I guess I call them formulas because I was doing a direct translation from portuguese to english. Any specific learning methods you used for 2-look PLL?
 

FatBoyXPC

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
1,795
WCA
2010LACH01
YouTube
Visit Channel
2LOLL and 2LPLL are both very easy and the number of algorithms to learn is very low. You can actually get by with learning one Corner PLL (CPLL) and one Edge PLL (EPLL). Same goes for OLL (one Edge Orientation algorithm and one Corner Orientation algorithm).

I guess it depends on if you want speed or level of difficulty (which learning all 4 Look Last Layer algorithms isn't very hard. A total of 9 for OLL and 6 PLL I think?). When you learn the F RUR'U' F' edge orientation alg, really you just learned both of them. I say this because the other alg is f RUR'U' f' which is a double layer F turn (meaning the front two layers). Also you could learn that as F RUR'U' RUR'U' F' instead, which is still basically the same (since you just repeat the RUR'U'). The 7 OCLL's are pretty quick to learn. Once you learn common triggers, learning a lot of algorithms becomes easy. You'll find you get a trigger + a random move or two or vice versa, etc.
 

freshcuber

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
1,373
Location
Buffalo, New York
WCA
2011MURR02
OLL:http://badmephisto.com/2LookOLL.pdf

PLL:http://badmephisto.com/2LookPLL.pdf


These are links to some good 2LOLL and 2LPLL algs. I currently use those OLLs and all of the PLLs in full PLL and haven't switched any of them. There are videos that will also help on youtube.

PLL Video:http://www.youtube.com/user/badmephisto#p/c/0B7E0E5922B76D76/7/S61q3FYVFis


OLL Video:http://www.youtube.com/user/badmephisto#p/c/0B7E0E5922B76D76/4/DTYvklyOpVM

All of Badmephisto's videos on youtube are very helpful. Just search "badmephisto" on youtube and his channel will pop up then just pick the video you need. This videos should be enough to get you going along with those printable algorithm pages. Learn them one at a time slowly. Probably one a day. using a 4LLL you can get sub-30 with practice and sub-40 easily.
 

Rpotts

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
1,871
Location
KC
WCA
2010POTT01
YouTube
Visit Channel
When you learn the F RUR'U' F' edge orientation alg, really you just learned both of them. I say this because the other alg is f RUR'U' f' which is a double layer F turn (meaning the front two layers). Also you could learn that as F RUR'U' RUR'U' F' instead, which is still basically the same (since you just repeat the RUR'U').

This is incorrect, the alg f (R U R' U') f' could also be solved as y2 F (U R U' R') F'. Those algs are exactly the same, just different angle/notation.

The alg F (R U R' U') (R U R' U') F' solves a different OLL. In order to solve the 6 move P OLL you would need to do F (R U R' U')x5 F' Highly inefficient.
 

Joker

Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
603
Location
Canaduh
YouTube
Visit Channel
I personally learnt 2LPLL first as some shortcuts for beginner's method of LL.
THEN I learnt 2LOLL (most people learn them the other way around).
It doesn't matter too much imo though. After, start learning full OLL and PLL (I suggest learning PLL's first, so when you know all 21, no matter what case you run into, you know how to solve it. If you learn 21 OLLs, over half the time you will try to recognize the case, but you will not know how to solve it, so you just wasted time trying to recognize a case you do not know.)
So here's the steps:
1. 2LOLL/2LPLL
2. If you learn 2LOLL, learn 2LPLL, and vice versa.
3. Full PLL
4. Full OLL
5. Congratz, you now know 2LLL.
 

nolonger

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
7
I've been using Badmephisto and the wiki's algs for solving. They have worked so far and I have learned 5 algs today. I'll keep practicing them so I don't forget.

Thanks Joker, that looks like what I'll be doing the next couple of weeks/months. Think I'll have to order a new cube since mine supposedly isn't an A-III and it pops frequently if not using a little more tension than I would like.
 

FatBoyXPC

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
1,795
WCA
2010LACH01
YouTube
Visit Channel
Since Rpotts decided to hop onto the technicality bandwagon, and apparently doesn't read the full sentence(s), I'll let you know that he is correct. The algorithms he discusses do the same thing, they are just performed differently. This comes in handy to when you get experienced enough at OLL that instead of doing a U2 F RUR'U' F' you should do f URU'R' f'. You will know by that point you also definitely shouldn't do a y2 (AUFing is better than cube rotations, but avoid AUF when possible). Don't you worry about that yet though, worry about that when you've got 4LLL understood fairly well and recognition doesn't take long. You really could wait until you get to full PLL and possibly even full OLL before worrying about that. I suggest learning the various EO algs at different angles (and even most of the OCLLs) before learning full OLL though because all the 2LOLL algs are still regular OLL algs (they just happen to have all edges oriented). This means you'll be able to benefit from learning from different angles even when you learn full OLL. You might even be as inclined to learn several OLLs at different angles after you learn full OLL.

Rpotts:
What am I incorrect about? I didn't say they were the "exact same," I said "basically the same." In terms of Edge Orientation (unless I missed how I was talking about full OLL, but I thought I was quite clear about 2LOLL), they do the exact same thing. The great part is I didn't even say that! I just said they do basically the same thing! That means they do something similar. I know that F SM SM F' solves a different OLL (the one that got Erik the WR with PLL skip) vs the T shape that F SM F' solves. I said basically the same because you don't have to learn anything new, you just do SM twice instead of once.

I wasn't going to confuse him by telling him how to do the different EO algs at different angles (even though it's just the inverse algorithm, it's still something new to learn when you're just learning how to do the cube). Knowing that Sexy Move and Sledge Hammer as we (the cubers who already know the terminology and have some experience) all know will really help learn algorithms. I specifically put the trigger spaced away from the F moves so he could see that they are grouped together. Yes, call me lazy because I didn't feel like using parentheses.

I applaud you for hopping on this bandwagon I mentioned above. I didn't give him any false information, but you pulled a technicality in a desperate attempt to boost your self-esteem. Pat yourself on the back. You somewhat succeeded with the technicality, but failed to make me look stupid. This is probably where you should reevaluate the content of your posts and how they relate to the topic. You sir, blatantly broke at least one of the forums rules.
 

Rpotts

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
1,871
Location
KC
WCA
2010POTT01
YouTube
Visit Channel
I thought you meant F sexyx2 F' solved the F (U R U' R') F' or f (R U R' U') f' case. I wasn't trying to correct you on anything else. It was simply a miscommunication. I think you really jumped the gun on calling me out at trying to boost my self esteem, and I was not trying to make you look stupid. I just didn't want the OP trying desperately to solve the beginners EO case with F sexyx2 F'.

I'm serious, I was not trying start **** or anything. My bad, I should've been more clear. But for the record I read your post in it's entirety more than once before replying.

EDIT: I just went back and reread my post and see no reason why you responded the way you did. The most inflammatory thing I said was "This is incorrect" and "highly inefficient"

Your reply does contain information useful to the OP however. anyway, I'm done with this. Good day.
 
Last edited:

FatBoyXPC

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
1,795
WCA
2010LACH01
YouTube
Visit Channel
Honestly you probably just got the short end of the stick because this is about the 3rd time in two days I attempt to be helpful, but instead of posting content to help the OP, somebody decides to correct me all based off quite a minor technicality. I think the annoyance was that it appeared that you took what I said out of context, and introduced it as I was talking about full OLL instead of specificallly 2LOLL. You can also do y2 F SM SM F' to solve the f SM f' case (again, EO not full OLL). I was trying to keep things easy for him, and I got severely annoyed at the correction based of a technicality. I probably wouldn't have cared so much had it hot happened the other few times (not by you, by any means). I apologize for that.
 

nolonger

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
7
I got lost in a bit of the lingo here, but I'm quickly picking up PLL and OLL. My OLL needs more work than my PLL. I can easily recognize any shape that comes up, I just don't know all the algorithms yet. For PLL a friend explained to me how to do the 3-edge clockwise or counterclockwise very easily and quite fast. With that I only have to learn how to do the E and H permutations and I'm done for 2-look PLL.
 

Rpotts

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
1,871
Location
KC
WCA
2010POTT01
YouTube
Visit Channel
H perm - M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2

you can perform it like this - (r2 R2' U) (r2 R2' U2) (r2 R2' U) (r2 R2') where r2 means a double layer turn of the R face and the middle slice. R2' means you turn the R face 180 degrees, but in the counter clockwise direction.
 

FatBoyXPC

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
1,795
WCA
2010LACH01
YouTube
Visit Channel
If you do the M Slices with your left middle + ring fingers then a double U2 flick with your right index + middle fingers, this alg is extremely fast! I can 1.1 this or better very consistently. I've sub1'd it quite a few times.

For OLL: You have 7 new shapes to learn. Try to group them together to help the elimination process. The two fish cases are Sune + Anti Sune. Bow Tie and Chameleon go together (their algs are inverse to each other). Then you have 3 cases that aren't really related. The headlights case you can fingertrick quite nicely, just try to remember this case starts out with R2 D' (if headlights are in back, if they're in front it's R2 D) and let your muscle memory take over. You now have two cases with no corners oriented. Superman is basically double headlights, the fastest alg for this is a double Anti Sune. This means you can literally do Anti Sune twice, or you can cancel out some extra R/U moves if you follow the alg. Now you have the pi / Bruno case which is basically an anti sune U' anti sune, but you can just follow an alg for that as well.

Sune: R U R' U R U2 R'
Anti Sune: R U2 R' U' R U' R'

Chameleon: r U R' U' r' F R F'
Bow Tie: F R' F' r U R U' r'

Headlights (in back): R2 D' R U2 R' D R U2 R - this can be fingertricked quite nicely

Superman (double headlights): R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R - Notice how this starts out with a sexy move, but it's U2 instead of U, then it is a sexy move, then the a pair insertion of R U' R'. If you don't want to learn anything new you can just do Two Anti Sunes. Although if you look here at the R U R' U', the R U is where you cancel out some moves if you were to just do two Anti Sunes. Look at the Anti Sune alg and you'll see where R U' R' you would then R U2 R'. If you follow the pair how it moves to the back left corner in U, you just do the same thing with this alg, so you save yourself a few moves :p

Pi / Bruno: R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R - You could also do Anti Sune + U' + Anti Sune if you didn't want to learn any new algorithms.

When you are doing PLL, since A and E perms don't do anything to the edges, look at the edges while you are doing the CP alg. This will let you easily know which EP case, and all 4 EP cases are fast :) Get good at M slices for PLLs. You should also learn the M/U PLL's for Ua and Ub, a lot of people can sub1 them.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top