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My quest for Sub 8 Petrus

PetrusQuber

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Jun 27, 2019
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Yes, I'm serious. I want to see if Petrus can be used as a viable method compared to CFOP, Roux, and ZZ. It'll probably be a decade committment, but I think I can do it with lots of dedication. I'm currently averaging sub 30, so it's going to be a long hard slog towards national class average. It's over 20 seconds away, but still. i'm going to try. At least sub 15.

So I thought this would be a good place to post my times, ask questions, and hear your thoughts on this.
My plan is to train each of my steps individually for the next few years, improving specifically on certain areas, and putting them together. So lets get into it!


My practise regime for the next few months - work on each step, improving their efficiency then speed. Learn COLLs alongside that. Come back to any weak spots like 2x2x3. Work on inspection time usage. Drill LL algs until like sub 1.5. Practise lookahead as much as possible, use metronome. Start learning full ZBLL alongside other things. Repeat.
———————————————————
Week 1- 2x2x2 block and Sune COLL
Current average: Sub 6
Current No. Moves: 10
Goal:
Sub 5 average 50% done
Sub 8 moves Completed (sort of)
Know all Sune COLL algs Completed
Comment: The sub 5 is getting tricky, as I had to redo my blockbuilding technique, making it easier for low move count, but harder to improve speed, as its unpractised. I know the Sune COLLs now, but need to work on execution and recognition.
———————————————————
Week 2-2x2x2 block and T COLLs
Current average:Sub 7
Current No. moves:8
Goal:
Sub 5 average 75% done
Sub 7 moves 95% done
T COLLs 33.33% done
Comment: Going to continue trying to get sub 5 averages here, and also lower the move count slightly.
Times with Petrus:
3x3 average: 25.87
3x3 OH average: 1:25.18
3x3 FMC average: 57 HTM

———————————————————
Week 3 - 2x2x2 block and expansion
Current average (both): sub 10
Current No. moves for expansion: 10 (eek)
Goal:
Sub 8 average 0% done
Sub 16 moves 0% done
Comment: I’m going to try keep my average and move-count down for 2x2x2, and refine my expansion technique. It’s bad. Very bad.
Times with Petrus:
I can’t even post because my times are so bad, as my first two steps have been rebuilt.
___________________________________________
Week 4 - 2x2x2 block and expansion
Current average (both):sub 9
Current No. moves for expansion: 7 (going slowly)
Goal:
Sub 8 average
Sub 16 moves
Comment: Doing better, but still need to wrap my head around this new block building technique, and lookahead.
___________________________________________
Week 5 - 2x2x3 block
Current average: sub 9
Current No. moves for expansion: sub 7 (going slow)
Goal:
Sub 6 average
Sub 7 moves
Comment: Practising lookahead during first block, and using inspection to plan some of the 2x2x3. I actually learnt T COLLs cause why not.
Times with Petrus: Check out my updated records.
——————————————————————
Week 6 - 2x2x3 block and U COLLs
Current average: sub 8
Current No. moves for expansion: sub 6 (going slow)
Goal:
Sub 6 average
Sub 7 moves (normal speed)
Comment: Doing pretty well now, just need to speed it up and lookahead during 2x2x2 block. Copied down U COLLs, started learning. Only 20 more COLLs left! (Obviously I started with 7, that’s 35, then I learnt Sunes, 30, left Anti-Sunes cos not worth it, 25, and did T COLLs, 20.)
——————————————————————
Week 7 - 2x2x3 block and U COLLs
Current average: sub 10 (new technique)
Current No. moves for expansion: sub 8 (I can’t do this sub 6 FMC at even slow speed)
Goal:
Sub 6 average
Sub 7 moves
Comment: My last post on finishing the 2x2x3 up last week was wishful thinking. I’m going to shave off some time on the 2x2x2 through inspection use, and continue my expansion work. I really need to get better at my lookahead during 2x2x2, and CE pair recog (how to pair up, and in a nice place to connect with line)
——————————————————————
Week 8 - 2x2x3 block and U COLLs
Current average: sub 11 to sub 9
Current No. moves for expansion: sub 8
Goal:
Sub 7 average
Sub 8 moves
Comment: This 2x2x3 is taking forever. I just can’t find the pieces in inspection. I’ll try some more and decrease my 2x2x2 time a bit (I think I’m doing well with it) and go back to slow solving. As for the U COLLs, I’m just too lazy to learn. I got two last Saturday, but that’s it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
228
Yes, I'm serious. I want to see if Petrus can be used as a viable method compared to CFOP, Roux, and ZZ. It'll probably be a decade committment, but I think I can do it with lots of dedication. I'm currently averaging sub 30, so it's going to be a long hard slog towards national class average. It's over 20 seconds away, but still. i'm going to try. At least sub 15.

So I thought this would be a good place to post my times, ask questions, and hear your thoughts on this.
My plan is to train each of my steps individually for the next few years, improving specifically on certain areas, and putting them together. So lets get into it!
Week 1- 2x2x2 block
Current average: Sub 6
Goal: Sub 4
Comment: I need to work on using my inspection time well, to plan out my block all the way through before I begin.
I feel like it would be VERY hard to achieve even sub 12 with Petrus. Other methods have much more potential and have many more resources. There are hardly any videos on Petrus but quite a few more for CFOP being the most popular. Then Roux being the second most popular has a decent amount of videos. And then ZZ being Third has a few videos on it. I feel like you should switch to ZZ or Roux because there are still this block building elements to them so you would not be horrible using them at the start.
 

u Cube

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Apr 6, 2018
Messages
320
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Yes, I'm serious. I want to see if Petrus can be used as a viable method compared to CFOP, Roux, and ZZ. It'll probably be a decade committment, but I think I can do it with lots of dedication. I'm currently averaging sub 30, so it's going to be a long hard slog towards national class average. It's over 20 seconds away, but still. i'm going to try. At least sub 15.

So I thought this would be a good place to post my times, ask questions, and hear your thoughts on this.
My plan is to train each of my steps individually for the next few years, improving specifically on certain areas, and putting them together. So lets get into it!
Week 1- 2x2x2 block
Current average: Sub 6
Goal: Sub 4
Comment: I need to work on using my inspection time well, to plan out my block all the way through before I begin.
Good luck man! Don't give up! I'm sub-13 with roux, it takes work but it is well worth it.
 

PetrusQuber

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Jun 27, 2019
Messages
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I feel like it would be VERY hard to achieve even sub 12 with Petrus. Other methods have much more potential and have many more resources. There are hardly any videos on Petrus but quite a few more for CFOP being the most popular. Then Roux being the second most popular has a decent amount of videos. And then ZZ being Third has a few videos on it. I feel like you should switch to ZZ or Roux because there are still this block building elements to them so you would not be horrible using them at the start.
Myabe, but I'm committed to using Petrus now, and I can't stop.
 

efattah

Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
517
Yes, I'm serious. I want to see if Petrus can be used as a viable method compared to CFOP, Roux, and ZZ. It'll probably be a decade committment, but I think I can do it with lots of dedication. I'm currently averaging sub 30, so it's going to be a long hard slog towards national class average. It's over 20 seconds away, but still. i'm going to try. At least sub 15.

So I thought this would be a good place to post my times, ask questions, and hear your thoughts on this.
My plan is to train each of my steps individually for the next few years, improving specifically on certain areas, and putting them together. So lets get into it!
———————————————————
Week 1- 2x2x2 block
Current average: Sub 6
Goal: Sub 4
Comment: I need to work on using my inspection time well, to plan out my block all the way through before I begin.
Don't listen to the naysayers. Your goal can be achieved, it is only up to you to achieve it. In 2015 I came on here saying I wanted to be the first to get a sub-10 official average with a corners first method, people laughed and said it was impossible, at the time my average was around 28 seconds, now I average around 13 seconds and show no signs of stopping; sure I had to make lots of tweaks and improvements to the method, but you might end up doing that as well and come up with something better than before that benefits everyone.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
228
So if you do take this route here are some steps you could take. Improve your first block like you want to but after that instead of improving on a intuitive part learn 3 look last layer. (if you haven’t already.) Then I would keep improving on intuitive things until you are sub 20 then I would learn full PLL (Or COLL) and then keep improving your intuitive aspects of your solve. You could also learn ZBLL if you have enough dedication.

Edit: Oh and I forgot you need to be color neutral. So I would start learning that like right now because the longer you go the more you become used to white (or what ever color you start on.)
 
Last edited:

PetrusQuber

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So if you do take this route here are some steps you could take. Improve your first block like you want to but after that instead of improving on a intuitive part learn 3 look last layer. (if you haven’t already.) Then I would keep improving on intuitive things until you are sub 20 then I would learn full PLL (Or COLL) and then keep improving your intuitive aspects of your solve. You could also learn ZBLL if you have enough dedication.

Edit: Oh and I forgot you need to be color neutral. So I would start learning that like right now because the longer you go the more you become used to white (or what ever color you start on.)
Lol, I've already done most of those things ;). I might learn COLL after a bit. I still need to work on my 2x2x3 though.
 

Billabob

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Jul 12, 2018
Messages
105
This is very interesting, please keep us updated with your progress. I'm always glad to see people using "non-standard" methods rather than doing 20,000 solves on one of the 3 big methods. A lot of them have potential that is squandered by online naysayers who refuse to accept anything other than CFOP can achieve fast times.
 

PapaSmurf

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Good luck! I definitely think that you've given yourself a hard job, but it's certainly possible and hopefully, with the right techniques, you should get that goal! If I were you, focus on movecount first. The 2x2x2 technically should take no more than 8 moves iirc, then expansion no more than 11 (there are only 4 cases at this depth), otherwise, on average, 6 then 8 moves. EO is around 5 (remember you can use M moves to flip 4 edges with 3 moves) then right block should be about 10 moves. Then just slowly add algs to LL with the final goal of full ZBLL. Also, build block in back. Get used to it now (and being x2y neutral).

Once you consistently get near these movecounts (not just 2 solves in a row, but actually work at it), you'll have a very good grounding. Then work on inspection and tps at the same time.
 

2180161

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Hey there! I currently use Petrus as my main method, and although I took almost a year-long break, I'm still around 11s, though my average before the break was mid-9. I made a guide with Tao Yu on Petrus improvement as well that I'll link at the bottom of this potential wall of text. One of the big things with Petrus is to make sure you do your blocks with very little moves, and in the back so that your EO is easily recognized and has easy finger-tricks.

As PapaSmurf said, movecount should definitely be the priority, as Petrus is designed to have very little movecount as you are constantly building on that which you have already built, rarely breaking it up. There's not point in having 10TPS if you're at 120 move solves. Slow down to 4TPS and have 50 move solves and you're at the same speed.

Color-neutrality can also be very good for Petrus, but by providing many options, it can hinder your inspection ability as you are looking at many different possible blocks -- 8 blocks for the 2x2x2 and 3 for the expansion to the 3x2x2.

https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/how-to-get-faster-using-the-petrus-method.66235/

The above link is to the guide that Tao Yu and I wrote..

The below link is one of my averages to show that it is most definitely possible to be fast with petrus.


I also believe I still hold the UWR for the fastest Petrus single of 5.14, with a few sub-5 fails, so again, Petrus most definitely can be fast. Don't let the naysayers tell you otherwise! Go for it, because someone needs to pick up my slack!
 

PetrusQuber

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This is very interesting, please keep us updated with your progress. I'm always glad to see people using "non-standard" methods rather than doing 20,000 solves on one of the 3 big methods. A lot of them have potential that is squandered by online naysayers who refuse to accept anything other than CFOP can achieve fast times.
I will! I’ll give you an update every Monday!
Good luck! I definitely think that you've given yourself a hard job, but it's certainly possible and hopefully, with the right techniques, you should get that goal! If I were you, focus on movecount first. The 2x2x2 technically should take no more than 8 moves iirc, then expansion no more than 11 (there are only 4 cases at this depth), otherwise, on average, 6 then 8 moves. EO is around 5 (remember you can use M moves to flip 4 edges with 3 moves) then right block should be about 10 moves. Then just slowly add algs to LL with the final goal of full ZBLL. Also, build block in back. Get used to it now (and being x2y neutral).

Once you consistently get near these movecounts (not just 2 solves in a row, but actually work at it), you'll have a very good grounding. Then work on inspection and tps at the same time.
Hey there! I currently use Petrus as my main method, and although I took almost a year-long break, I'm still around 11s, though my average before the break was mid-9. I made a guide with Tao Yu on Petrus improvement as well that I'll link at the bottom of this potential wall of text. One of the big things with Petrus is to make sure you do your blocks with very little moves, and in the back so that your EO is easily recognized and has easy finger-tricks.

As PapaSmurf said, movecount should definitely be the priority, as Petrus is designed to have very little movecount as you are constantly building on that which you have already built, rarely breaking it up. There's not point in having 10TPS if you're at 120 move solves. Slow down to 4TPS and have 50 move solves and you're at the same speed.

Color-neutrality can also be very good for Petrus, but by providing many options, it can hinder your inspection ability as you are looking at many different possible blocks -- 8 blocks for the 2x2x2 and 3 for the expansion to the 3x2x2.

https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/how-to-get-faster-using-the-petrus-method.66235/

The above link is to the guide that Tao Yu and I wrote..

The below link is one of my averages to show that it is most definitely possible to be fast with petrus.


I also believe I still hold the UWR for the fastest Petrus single of 5.14, with a few sub-5 fails, so again, Petrus most definitely can be fast. Don't let the naysayers tell you otherwise! Go for it, because someone needs to pick up my slack!
Thanks! I currently average around 60htm. Plus, what is x2y colour neutral, and how to flip edges using M?Lots of interesting info here.
Edit: In your guide 2180161, do you mean that i should do my 2x2x2 in 4 seconds, then my 2x2x3 in 6 seconds, or do you mean the expansion should take 2 seconds?
 
Last edited:

2180161

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I will! I’ll give you an update every Monday!


Thanks! I currently average around 60htm. Plus, what is x2y colour neutral, and how to flip edges using M?Lots of interesting info here.
Edit: In your guide 2180161, do you mean that i should do my 2x2x2 in 4 seconds, then my 2x2x3 in 6 seconds, or do you mean the expansion should take 2 seconds?
I believe the guide says something like "...and expand in a total of 6 seconds..." so I mean the expansion should only be 2 seconds. The reason being is you should at that speed, you should be able to one-look your 2c2c2 as it is very few moves (I do it in about 5 or 6 on average) so while you don't have a lot of time to look ahead during the solve, but if you're efficient, you can see more in inspection.
 

Nilsibert

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Very interesting, and respect for that commitment!
I don‘t know much about petrus, but I would suggest that you definitely learn coll and get used to quick recognizing. Being very good at recognizing coll is the perfect basis for getting into zbll. coll is also not terribly hard or a huge alg set, so it shouldnt take too long to learn. Plus, the earlier you learn it, the more time you‘ll spend using it so you should be getting really fast at it over time, at which point you can expand to zbll. Since you‘re already expecting years of practice, you can slowly and steadily add more and more zbll subsets to your knowledge without neglecting much practice of all the other things you can improve.
So good luck and I hope you keep at it, would be interesting to follow the progress :)
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
117
Also I would learn how to recognize CO rn from COLL and start learning 1 ZBLL a day. Over time it’ll add up. I think it’s better to learn and drill one a day for a long period of time while you’re slower so you get faster and faster using more and more endgame algs. ZBLL is only hard because of recognition and practice amount.
 
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