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Kyle™

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2004ALLA01
It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.

Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.

I offered OP a short-term success plan ( learn 8 cases in a matter of hours, and boost times. Those cases are also way faster on big cubes than 4LLL by a long shot) with a plan for long-term success ( learn full OLL ),

I think the main issue in this thread that caused confrontation is that people think learning the 8 ZBF2L cases is this huge undertaking that is wasting time and OP could be focusing on other things. It just takes a couple of hours, even for a beginner. That is the definition of 'quick tips for fast progress' which is what OP asked for.

It's okay for people to disagree. It's also okay for me, the alpha male of this forum, to point out when they are objectively wrong, even if that means having multiple people upset with me.

I stated pretty clearly that OP should do what he wants and that I was just offering a different path for him.
Good luck to you @Nir1213. I'm still free to help anytime via PM. :)
 

Skewb_Cube

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Messages
322
It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.

Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.

I offered OP a short-term success plan ( learn 8 cases in a matter of hours, and boost times. Those cases are also way faster on big cubes than 4LLL by a long shot) with a plan for long-term success ( learn full OLL ),

I think the main issue in this thread that caused confrontation is that people think learning the 8 ZBF2L cases is this huge undertaking that is wasting time and OP could be focusing on other things. It just takes a couple of hours, even for a beginner. That is the definition of 'quick tips for fast progress' which is what OP asked for.

It's okay for people to disagree. It's also okay for me, the alpha male of this forum, to point out when they are objectively wrong, even if that means having multiple people upset with me.

I stated pretty clearly that OP should do what he wants and that I was just offering a different path for him.
Good luck to you @Nir1213. I'm still free to help anytime via PM. :)

"Alpha male"

So, your "quick tips for fast progress" are right, but not the most appropiate for a beginner. From my point of view, other people and me also gave those "quick tips for fast progress" which are also helpful and not lazy stuff, because those tips are supposed to be simple ande easy to understand, which with them, a beginner could easily become sub-1 minute. And your tips are good, but not for the level @Nir1213 is, and if you did notice, in lots of occasions he mentioned about being confused, and about how to drill and practice those algs.

And even @Nir1213 could have already be sub-1 minute with the simple layer by layer, by just doing the cross on the bottom, learn good fingertricks and do a bunch of solves so the fingertricks and the beginner algorithms are in his muscle memory.
 
Last edited:

PetrusQuber

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It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.

Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.

I offered OP a short-term success plan ( learn 8 cases in a matter of hours, and boost times. Those cases are also way faster on big cubes than 4LLL by a long shot) with a plan for long-term success ( learn full OLL ),

I think the main issue in this thread that caused confrontation is that people think learning the 8 ZBF2L cases is this huge undertaking that is wasting time and OP could be focusing on other things. It just takes a couple of hours, even for a beginner. That is the definition of 'quick tips for fast progress' which is what OP asked for.

It's okay for people to disagree. It's also okay for me, the alpha male of this forum, to point out when they are objectively wrong, even if that means having multiple people upset with me.

I stated pretty clearly that OP should do what he wants and that I was just offering a different path for him.
Good luck to you @Nir1213. I'm still free to help anytime via PM. :)
I have in fact taught several people to cube, and honestly just doing some solves will get to 1 min. It took maybe a week of solving to get below 1 min for most people.
But OP can do what they want.
 

Kyle™

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
188
WCA
2004ALLA01
"Alpha male"

So, your "quick tips for fast progress" are right, but not the most appropiate for a beginner. From my point of view, other people and me also gave those "quick tips for fast progress" which are also helpful and not lazy stuff, because those tips are supposed to be simple ande easy to understand, which with them, a beginner could easily become sub-1 minute. And your tips are good, but not for the level @Nir1213 is, and if you did notice, in lots of occasions he mentioned about being confused, and about how to drill and practice those algs.

And even @Nir1213 could have already be sub-1 minute with the simple layer by layer, by just doing the cross on the bottom, learn good fingertricks and do a bunch of solves so the fingertricks and the beginner algorithms are in his muscle memory.

8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.

Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.

I have in fact taught several people to cube, and honestly just doing some solves will get to 1 min. It took maybe a week of solving to get below 1 min for most people.
But OP can do what they want.

Do you understand that when someone asks for advice, they don't want to hear "keep doing it"?
It's lazy and unhelpful. They already know they need to keep doing it. Do you think they are going to stop cubing until someone like you comes along and says "hey buddy, keep doing it". Oh, they never would have thought to keep practicing until you came along.
 

Nir1213

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8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.

Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.



Do you understand that when someone asks for advice, they don't want to hear "keep doing it"?
It's lazy and unhelpful. They already know they need to keep doing it. Do you think they are going to stop cubing until someone like you comes along and says "hey buddy, keep doing it". Oh, they never would have thought to keep practicing until you came along.
i made slow progress because its hard to understand zbf2l and once i did it i thought i would do oll and pll which i would do.
Now i see zbf2l isnt really much of a help to me
"Alpha male"

So, your "quick tips for fast progress" are right, but not the most appropiate for a beginner. From my point of view, other people and me also gave those "quick tips for fast progress" which are also helpful and not lazy stuff, because those tips are supposed to be simple ande easy to understand, which with them, a beginner could easily become sub-1 minute. And your tips are good, but not for the level @Nir1213 is, and if you did notice, in lots of occasions he mentioned about being confused, and about how to drill and practice those algs.

And even @Nir1213 could have already be sub-1 minute with the simple layer by layer, by just doing the cross on the bottom, learn good fingertricks and do a bunch of solves so the fingertricks and the beginner algorithms are in his muscle memory.
It's painfully obvious that some people in the thread haven't taught anyone to cube before as they lazily throw phrases around like " just do it ", or " just practice". These phrases are really annoying to hear as a beginner, and it's not a good look to be short with people who ask for help. If a homeless man on the street can give the same advice as you did in this thread, I've got news for you: You're a non-contributor.

Condescendingly assuming OP can't comprehend that practice yields better results is insulting to OP and others who took the time to properly provide guidance.

I offered OP a short-term success plan ( learn 8 cases in a matter of hours, and boost times. Those cases are also way faster on big cubes than 4LLL by a long shot) with a plan for long-term success ( learn full OLL ),

I think the main issue in this thread that caused confrontation is that people think learning the 8 ZBF2L cases is this huge undertaking that is wasting time and OP could be focusing on other things. It just takes a couple of hours, even for a beginner. That is the definition of 'quick tips for fast progress' which is what OP asked for.

It's okay for people to disagree. It's also okay for me, the alpha male of this forum, to point out when they are objectively wrong, even if that means having multiple people upset with me.

I stated pretty clearly that OP should do what he wants and that I was just offering a different path for him.
Good luck to you @Nir1213. I'm still free to help anytime via PM. :)
i didnt really meant that
i dont want any cheap ways i want to learn it the normal way, which is already pretty easy.
i mean by 4LLL
 

Skewb_Cube

Member
Joined
May 7, 2020
Messages
322
8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.

Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.

I'm not blaming you about the OP, but I'm just saying, as many others, that is a bit unnecessary for someone starting out to learn those algs, and he doesn't need those algs to improve his last layer, the last layer can be easily improven by just doing solves, because the algs and cases are going to get into the OP's muscle memory.
 

PetrusQuber

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This is not worth fighting over. He said he didn't want to learn VHLS, so he won't. End of the story.
Exactly.
8 easy cases isn't beginner level? How can a 7 year old learn it in just a few hours? 4LLL is surely easy, but again, if you saw OP's video, his last layer needs a boost above all else.

Also, OP's history in this thread indicated that he was not putting forth any serious effort to learning; Just lots of talking about doing things.
So, it isn't fair to blame the advisor for the OP not putting in effort. That goes for other people giving advice, not just myself.



Do you understand that when someone asks for advice, they don't want to hear "keep doing it"?
It's lazy and unhelpful. They already know they need to keep doing it. Do you think they are going to stop cubing until someone like you comes along and says "hey buddy, keep doing it". Oh, they never would have thought to keep practicing until you came along.
Ok, back up. Look at the first couple of pages. Us commenting good luck, some helpful critique and advice, etc. It’s only after you keep insisting to learn ZBF2L that we point out that just solving could’ve meant a sub 1 average already.

@Nir1213 did you get the cube yet?

With the same four example scrambles I posted on the previous page, my solutions were 19.75 moves long on average and VHLS into corner OLL solutions were 19.0 moves. Shorter, but not by much. In fact, I just went and compared ten freshly generated scrambles.

"easy only" = some of the short non-dot OLL cases
"vhls" = only the joined-pair VHLS cases
Move counts are in STM.

U' R2 D L2 D F2 U' F2 L2 D2 R' U R' U2 B' R' B

easy only:
y' U R' U2 R U R' U' R
U' F U R U' R' F'
L' U' L U' L' U2 L
22

vhls:
y' U R' U2 R U R' U2 R
B L U L' B'
L U2 L' U' L U' L'
20


U2 B2 U2 R2 D' R2 D' F2 L2 F2 U2 L' D' L D' B2 F R' F' R2

easy only:
R U R' U2 R U R'
U F U R U' R' F'
R U R' U R U2 R'
21

vhls:
R U R' U2 R U2 R'
R B U' B' R'
R' U2 R U R' U R
19


R2 B' R2 B U2 R2 F R2 F2 U' F U2 R U' R'

easy only:
y' U' R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R'
U' F U R U' R' F'
R' U2 R U R' U R
22

vhls:
y' U' R U2 R2 U' R
U' R' U' F U R2 U' R' F'
R U R' U R U2 R'
22


R' U' F' U F R2 U' R2 U2 B2 R' B2 U2 R U2 L U2 L'

easy only:
U2 R U2 R' U' R U2 R'
U F U R U' R' F'
F' r U R' U' r' F R
23

vhls:
U2 R U2 R'
U2 S' R U' R' S
U R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
20


B2 L U2 L U2 L U2 L2 U2 B2 D' L F' L' U2 F D

easy only:
U' F' U' F
U2 F U R U' R' F'
L' U' L U' L' U2 L
18

vhls:
y U' L' U2 L F R U R' F'
R U2 R' U' R U' R'
16


D2 U2 F' U2 B' U2 F U2 F' U2 F R' U2 R U2 B D2

easy only:
U2 R U R' U' R U2 R'
M' U' M U2 M' U' M
15

vhls:
U2 R U R'
U2 S' R U' R' S
R U R' U R U2 R'
17


F U F2 U' F2 U' F R' F2 R2 U2 R' F2 U2 R U2 R' F2

easy only:
U F' U' F
U r U2 R' U' R U' r'
12

vhls:
y U L' U2 L
U L F' L2 U' L U F
U2 R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
22


R U2 L D2 R' U2 R D2 U2 R' F2 U' F' U F U2 F L'

easy only:
y' U R' U' R U' R' U R
F U R U' R' F'
R U R D R' U' R D' R2
23

vhls:
y U L' U' L
U' L' B' U B L
L' U2 L U L' U L
17


U' B' U' R2 U B U2 R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 U' B2 U' R2

easy only:
U R U' R' d' L' U L
U r U R' U R U2 r'
16

vhls:
U R U' R' d' F R U R' F'
R' U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R2
19


R F2 R F2 R' D R2 U R2 F2 U R2 U' F2 D' F2

easy only:
R U R' U R U' R'
U' F' r U R' U' r' F R
16

vhls:
R U R' U R U' R'
U' F' r U R' U' r' F R
16

Both methods averaged 18.8 moves over these samples.


Name two people who said that in this thread. Or heck, even just one. (I didn't find any mention of immediately learning full OLL at all, but maybe my eyes glossed over something.)
Also Kyle... Want to answer this?
Plus if this continues we can move to a DM
 

Kyle™

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
188
WCA
2004ALLA01
Exactly.

Ok, back up. Look at the first couple of pages. Us commenting good luck, some helpful critique and advice, etc. It’s only after you keep insisting to learn ZBF2L that we point out that just solving could’ve meant a sub 1 average already.

@Nir1213 did you get the cube yet?


I was giving more detailed information and encouraging him due to his interest in it.
It's called "helping someone on an individual level and not giving generic advice".
It's tough stuff.

@Nir1213

Now that you have gathered a lot of information, you can create a structured learning plan with a schedule.
Let me know if you need any help with anything.


This is not worth fighting over. He said he didn't want to learn ZBF2L, so he won't. End of the story.

Top tier contribution. Cognitive boost across the board for everyone. Much learned. :)
 

Nir1213

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guys can you help me out..
you see that piece that looks like a twisted corner but isnt its like under a solved edge
do you know of an alg that can solve the corner without disturbing the solved edge?
i have that case sometimes and its annoying
picture.png
yes i know its a half face reveal but whatever
 

PetrusQuber

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guys can you help me out..
you see that piece that looks like a twisted corner but isnt its like under a solved edge
do you know of an alg that can solve the corner without disturbing the solved edge?
i have that case sometimes and its annoying
View attachment 13490
yes i know its a half face reveal but whatever
Basically, take it out with something like R U R’ and attempt to separate the edge and corner, then do basic cases.
Try looking it up on somewhere like jperm.net’s alg sheet
 

Kyle™

Premium Member
Joined
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Messages
188
WCA
2004ALLA01
Also Kyle... Want to answer this?
Plus if this continues we can move to a DM

xyz misunderstood the entire premise of my guidance and wasted their time.
I advised OP to learn 8 cases for inserting a solved pair and orienting U edges.
xyz posted examples of solving pairs ( in a way that is beyond the scope of a beginner, I might add ) and inserting them.
It's two totally different things, so he must not have read the thread carefully. My examples show the move count is lower on average by a lot. It isn't even close.



I was trying to tell you guys to stop, but it obviously isn't working. He won't learn your algs, and you won't be able to convince him, so just leave him alone, same goes for the others.

You seem to chime in after debate has already cooled down and tell everyone to relax. Like the last several posts are not even in correlation to what you're talking about. Are you just clicking page 5 or 6, reading 2 posts, then hitting 'reply' ??? Very confusing.
 

Nir1213

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Something like
u' R U R' U' R U R' u
it works but is there also a alg that doesnt disturb other edges and corners if i might have already solved some f2l corner edge pairs

xyz misunderstood the entire premise of my guidance and wasted their time.
I advised OP to learn 8 cases for inserting a solved pair and orienting U edges.
xyz posted examples of solving pairs ( in a way that is beyond the scope of a beginner, I might add ) and inserting them.
It's two totally different things, so he must not have read the thread carefully. My examples show the move count is lower on average by a lot. It isn't even close.





You seem to chime in after debate has already cooled down and tell everyone to relax. Like the last several posts are not even in correlation to what you're talking about. Are you just clicking page 5 or 6, reading 2 posts, then hitting 'reply' ??? Very confusing.
sorry for double posting, i dont want to edit the other post because it would be confusing and off topic of my last post,
but its pretty still much the same.
zbf2l:
have f2l pair and do a alg to put the pair back and make a cross in 4-5 seconds (sometimes 1 - 2 seconds for the most easy case but thats rare
4LLL:
solve f2l pair in like less that 1 or at least 1 second
make cross in 1 - 2 seconds

you see whats going on here
 

Skewb_Cube

Member
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Messages
322
it works but is there also a alg that doesnt disturb other edges and corners if i might have already solved some f2l corner edge pairs

Try this: but first but the corner piece facing you on the left (the colour of your cross facing your, in this case I think it was blue) and the algorithm is:

Lefty version:

L' U' L U L' U2 L U L' U' L

Right handed version:

R U R' U' R U2 R' U' R U R'

Edit: The right handed version, you put the corner piece on the right instead of left.
 

Nir1213

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Try this: but first but the corner piece facing you on the left (the colour of your cross facing your, in this case I think it was blue) and the algorithm is:

Lefty version:

L' U' L U L' U2 L U L' U' L

Right handed version:

R U R' U' R U2 R' U' R U R'

Edit: The right handed version, you put the corner piece on the right instead of left.
thanks!
these helps also
but im too lazy to do left
does anyone have a alg for that?
nvm thats too much to ask for now im being greedy



buut if you have one i would like it
 
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