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[Help Thread] Megaminx Discussion and Help

xyzzy

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Any opinions on using Petrus eo on megaminx?
I usually do that. It makes solving the final S2L block really easy once EO is done since it's all 2-gen, although the lookahead from/into the EO step isn't great (just like in the original Petrus method). If you're willing to put a lot of effort into learning OLL algs, the effectiveness of Petrus EO diminishes, but if not, I think it's perfectly fine.

(disclaimer: I don't practise mega anymore and I wasn't very good (1:26-ish) even when I did; please disregard everything I say and listen to CuberStache instead)

obviously megaminx ZBLL is impractical
hmmmmm
 

Sub1Hour

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I was wondering what the upsides and downsides of the 3 major S2L methods are. I personally use Balint. I like the method because of its very freestyle nature and if I see something good I just do it, simple as that.
 

CuberStache

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I was wondering what the upsides and downsides of the 3 major S2L methods are. I personally use Balint. I like the method because of its very freestyle nature and if I see something good I just do it, simple as that.
Bálint has more rotations and fewer opportunities for blockbuilding. Westlund and Yu Da-Hyun are essentially the same; they just end with a different LL color. You can do "freestyle" Westlund/Yu Da-Hyun S2L the same way you do "freestyle" Bálint, except you actually have more freedom because you don't have to leave the top pairs for last.
 

Sub1Hour

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You can do "freestyle" Westlund/Yu Da-Hyun S2L the same way you do "freestyle" Bálint, except you actually have more freedom because you don't have to leave the top pairs for last.
That's kind of what I do. I don't do specific steps or anything, I just see and do. I don't start with a specific color to start my S2L and then go in a certain direction. I do save the top pairs for last most of the time but if they are free to insert or to use to make blocks I will use them.
 

Kaneki Uchiha

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I was wondering if there were other ways to solve the megaminx other than f2l and s2l and if any other methods exist
Cause you can do roux on 4x4 so I was wondering if you can do ZZ or roux in megaminx
 

Sub1Hour

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For Megaminx methods, here are the 3 most commonly used
Westlund - Most common method, very structured for the most part with set orders and LL color
Yu Da Hyun - A variation on the Westlund method with the key difference being the LL color is not opposite of your star color
Bálint - Almost no structure. Build blocks wherever you like, very high levels of freedom, and block building is key. Unlike other methods, you can save the 5 top pairs for last (Optional)
All of these methods have their pros and cons, I will be grouping together Westlund and Yu Da Hyun due to their similarity.


Westlund/Yu Da Hyun Pros:
Easy lookahead
Builds on CFOP F2L
Fewer blindspots

Westlund/Yu Da Hyun Cons:

Hard to take advantage of easy/free blocks/pairs
Very restrictive
Not as efficient
Higher amount of "Bad" cases
Less intuitive

Bálint Pros:

Very freestyle and non-restrictive
Great block building techniques
Easy to utilize free pairs/blocks
Lower move count
Easy to pick up "Bálint Blocks" if you know Petrus, Roux, or any block building methods/techniques
Forcing "Lucky Cases" is easier
Very Intuitive (and very fun)

Bálint Cons:

Harder lookahead
Very easy to get "Lost"
High rotation count
Vulnerable to "F2L Tunnel Vision"
I personally use Bálint as my megaminx method because I am very comfortable with building blocks and I also enjoy being able to take advantage of pre-built pairs without the restrictions of Westlund/Yu Da Hyun

I think that Bálint is a good method for those that use Roux, Petrus, or other block building methods. If you have good lookahead, have good recognition, and are very comfortable with block building, then use Bálint.

I think that Westlund/Yu Da Hyun would be a good method for CFOP solvers. It's very straight forward and its hard to stray off and get lost compared to Bálint. I would use this method if you struggle with lookahead and want to minimize blind spots.
For those wanting something other then the F2l, S2L, LL approach, there is not a lot to chose from and most are considered to be objectively worse than the 3 methods for S2L I already mentioned. ZZ Spike is a good option if you want something different but its still an LBL style approach. Aside from the 4 mentioned methods in this post (ZZ Spike, Bálint, Yu Da Hyun, and Westlund) no one uses anything else at a competitive level.


TL;DR, Just pick a method if you don't care about megaminx. If you do, read the whole post.
 

xyzzy

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I think that Bálint is a good method for those that use Roux, Petrus, or other block building methods. […] I think that Westlund/Yu Da Hyun would be a good method for CFOP solvers.
I find this very weird because I've always thought of Bálint as being more analogous to cross-F2L (you build what's essentially five bigger "cross edges", then fill in pairs) and Westlund being more analogous to Petrus-sans-EO (you build blocks, then keep extending until S2L is done).

I don't believe your claim that Bálint has lower move count than Westlund, mainly because Bálint forces you to solve the last five pairs CFOP-style, whereas with Westlund you can blockbuild until you're left with the last two faces.

(Fwiw, many, many years ago I mained Petrus for 3×3×3 and I pretty much came up with Westlund by myself when I tried to solve a megaminx.)
 
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CuberStache

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[moved this discussion from the wiki discussion thread to here]
Should I have a pattern in how I solve my S2L or should I start it on whichever part is easiest? I am just now getting serious about Megaminx and I want to start out with good habits so I don't have to change them later.
It's really up to you. I have a "fixed order", where I solve yellow first, then blue, then red, and so on going right. Even my more recent freestyle solves start with yellow and change up the order a bit in the middle. Starting with any color is more efficient, but you have to learn to look for more unique pairs. For that reason, I have a fixed order. Just do whichever feels better for you. People have gotten world-class with both.

Edit to avoid double-posting
Westlund/Yu Da Hyun Pros:
Easy lookahead
Builds on CFOP F2L
Fewer blindspots

Westlund/Yu Da Hyun Cons:

Hard to take advantage of easy/free blocks/pairs
Very restrictive
Not as efficient
Higher amount of "Bad" cases
Less intuitive
Uhhhh what, literally just do blockbuilding with Westlund S2L and all the cons are addressed. It is easier, not harder, to take advantage of free pairs because you can use pairs for the upper S2L pairs, whereas in Bálint you can only build the bottom blocks. Westlund S2L doesn't have to be F2L-based. You can do square + pair just as easily as you can do edge + pair + pair. I don't see Westlund S2L as "restrictive" at all, and bad cases can be dealt with by taking advantage of unsolved faces. To sum up, I strongly disagree with most of your points here.
 
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CuberStache

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Note to everyone: I follow this thread so I already get notifications when someone posts something. No need to tag me.

I decided not to respond to this particular post because when I did 2-look PLL, I did CP -> EP rather than EP -> CP. Any info I can provide is just what I would find watching various 4LLL tutorials on YouTube, something ProStar can do on his own.
 

I'm A Cuber

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Note to everyone: I follow this thread so I already get notifications when someone posts something. No need to tag me.

I decided not to respond to this particular post because when I did 2-look PLL, I did CP -> EP rather than EP -> CP. Any info I can provide is just what I would find watching various 4LLL tutorials on YouTube, something ProStar can do on his own.
You know full megaminx pll?
 
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