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Magic/Master Magic Petition!

Do you want Rublik's Magic to be a WCA event?


  • Total voters
    72
  • Poll closed .

Edward4

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This is a petition I created in an attempt to bring back the events Rubiks Magic and Master Magic to WCA events. Here is my argument

1. Rubiks Magic was appreciated by many before 2013. During the U.S. Nationals in 2011, More people competed in Magic than

3x3 Blindfolded 78 competitors

Fewest Moves Challenge 63 competitors

3x3 with Feet 19 competitors

Square-1 49 competitors

Rubiks Clock 53 competitors

6x6 47 competitors

7x7 45 competitors

4x4 Blindfolded 21 competitors

5x5 Blindfolded 13 competitors

3x3 Multi-Blind 30 competitors

Megaminx 70 competitors

Magic alone had more competitors than Pyraminx in Nationals 2011!!!

Pyraminx 100 competitors

Magic 104 competitors

Master Magic 59 competitors



2. A WCA deligate whom I spoke to recently told me that he was one of the people who decided to remove Magic and Master Magic from competitions. He explained to me that it was too difficult to determine if the speed cuber had touched the puzzle as s/he hit the speeds stacks timer. Why couldn't rules be changed specifically for Magic and Master Magic as they are for a puzzle such as Clock, where it must be standing up before the solve.




3. I have many younger siblings, and have tried to teach them how to solve, but many long algorithms don't fit into a younger child's attention span. The Rubiks Magic has no algorithms to memorize, but a few short, simple steps that can easily be learned quickly. I feel as if bringing Magic and Master Magic back as events will draw in more young speed cubers.

To participate, please take the poll!
 
Last edited:

penguinz7

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Make a poll please. Also a magic is not even close to a twisty puzzle. (then again neither is clock.) I think competitions for it are fine, but I don't think it should be part of WCA.
 

Edward4

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Thank you for your opinion! I do know that Magic is not a twisty puzzle, but I think that there should be different forms of puzzles than NxN's, and the current side events. Could you please tell me how to create a poll?
 

Ollie

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Please read this.

1. Stats from one competition in one year is not at all sufficient to bring back Magics. Not that stats from one competition proves anything anyway.
2. Read the link above - how would you solve the issues mentioned?
3. There's a two year old that uses intuitive F2L, probably better than me. 2x2x2, 3x3x3 and Pyra are already good for encouraging a younger audience.
 

Edward4

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Magic does not require algorithms, and does not need the solver to recognize cases. 2x2 uses at least 2-3 algorithms, and 3x3 requires over 4 algs. I am letting you know that there is only one two year old that can use intuitive F2L. I am trying to bring in dozens of younger cubers. I can understand your point with Pyraminx, but younger cubers may be more successful with Magic.
 

Ollie

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Magic does not require algorithms, and does not need the solver to recognize cases.
Not a good thing, read the link I posted previously.

2x2 uses at least 2-3 algorithms, and 3x3 requires over 4 algs. I am letting you know that there is only one two year old that can use intuitive F2L.
You're drastically underestimating what a child between the ages of 3-6 can actually do. There are a lot of very young speedcubers who know more than 4 algs, so I don't know why you don't think young children are capable of learning simple move sequences. Link.

I am trying to bring in dozens of younger cubers
By sending the message that simple alg learning is too hard? And that if you can't be bothered to put the effort in you can do a puzzle which requires no thought? Don't you think it cheapens the whole premise of speedcubing?
 

tx789

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Magic was removed for a reason. The chances of it returning are almost none. It adds nothing to speedcubing. You are doing the same thing over and over again, which is why it was the most hated on event back before 2013. Also how many people even want it to return?

One more thing the timing for fast solves are inaccurate on gen 2 timers once times are below a second.

Also if you think the regulations around magic would need specialising. Propose some ideas of how. Rather than say "I want magic back. Who else does?"
 
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strakerak

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I respectfully agree to disagree Edward4. I see a bunch of really young competitors (especially at Texas competitions) that solve Pyraminx, skewb, 3x3, and 2x2. It doesn't just have to be Magic.

Edit: One young fellow named Caleb signed up for my competition and only registered for Skewb and Pyraminx. He was seven.
 
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Ollie

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I respectfully agree to disagree Oliver. My point of view is that Rubiks Magic is a great addition to young child speed cubing.
Or you can ignore all the points I've made and those made by the most senior members of the WCA and continue to state that Magic is a good event to hold.

At least propose ways as to how the problem with regulations can be resolved. Or provide statistics from more than one competition in more than one country. Or demonstrate that young children (other than your siblings) can't memorize algorithms. Otherwise you have nothing.

EDIT: also, strakerak is right too. Skewb and Pyraminx each require one 4-move algorithm. This is less to memorize than the solution to a Magic or Master Magic.
 
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Rubiks560

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Young people can learn algs just fine. Especially if you taught them something as easy as the Sexy method where you only need sexy move+setup moves to solve.
Magic had many good reasons to be removed and a petition isn't going to bring it back. You're underestimating what younger people are capable of. I'm incredibly confident that I could teach my 7 year old sister how to solve a cube with ease.
 

qqwref

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I feel as if bringing Magic and Master Magic back as events will draw in more young speed cubers.
Why is that a good thing? If they are too young to solve anything but Magics, they are simply too young to be cubing. That isn't a problem with cubing, it's just what happens when you're extremely young. I don't see basketball, cricket, powerlifting, etc. holding increasingly simple events so they can get 3-year-olds to compete - so why should we?

To participate, just type MAGIC.
I don't think that's how a forum works.
 

Edward4

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I have never said anything about young children not being able to memorize algorithms period. All I said was that attention spans of many young children cannot comprehend with solving most puzzles. I am stating that Rubiks Magic is a good addition to other puzzles that a young cuber could most likely solve. This thread is an attempt to bring Magic back, not to argue child intelligence.
 

natezach728

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Magic is not coming back. It's really not even a puzzle, its like speedstacking, doing the same thing over and over. Timing is inaccurate, unclear rules regarding +2 and DNF. Sure, I liked magic. But then I practiced and became decent at everything LOL. No offense, but younger competitors are bound to screw up the flow of the comp somehow, a giant line for magic.
 

lerenard

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Magic does not require algorithms, and does not need the solver to recognize cases. 2x2 uses at least 2-3 algorithms, and 3x3 requires over 4 algs. I am letting you know that there is only one two year old that can use intuitive F2L. I am trying to bring in dozens of younger cubers. I can understand your point with Pyraminx, but younger cubers may be more successful with Magic.
Only 2 algs for 3x3: sune and a-perm. U-perm can be done with two sunes, and EO can be done intuitively.
 

tx789

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I have never said anything about young children not being able to memorize algorithms period. All I said was that attention spans of many young children cannot comprehend with solving most puzzles. I am stating that Rubiks Magic is a good addition to other puzzles that a young cuber could most likely solve. This thread is an attempt to bring Magic back, not to argue child intelligence.
Your reasons to have magic back, just seems to be: young children can't solve official events because they don't have the attention span . You're not proposing a way to have it come back. If magic was to be an official event again. You'd need to fix the problems it had which lead to it's removal from the official events list. Not state what you see as a benefit of it returning.


EDIT: Also here is a thread from 2012 from back when the news of magic was removed.
 
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Kit Clement

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I have never said anything about young children not being able to memorize algorithms period. All I said was that attention spans of many young children cannot comprehend with solving most puzzles. I am stating that Rubiks Magic is a good addition to other puzzles that a young cuber could most likely solve. This thread is an attempt to bring Magic back, not to argue child intelligence.
Since you seem to be unable to click incredibly relevant links, I will paste the relevant information for you:

Tyson's WCA Forum Post said:
2. Difficulty in regulation - The nature of Master and Master Magic is such that the start and the finish are critical to the competitor's time. As such, whether intentional or unintentional, it is very difficult for even experienced judges to determine whether the solve's start or finish has been performed in accordance to regulations. The WCA has reason to believe that these events have not been held under consistent circumstances around the world. The WCA emphasizes that these inconsistencies are as a result of the nature of the event more than the experience of the officials.
If you want to convince someone that magic should be brought back, you absolutely need a concrete solution to making this event easier to apply regulations fairly and consistently around the world. So please stop ignoring this question and give us a real solution (not just saying that there is one for Clock), or else this thread will probably just get deleted.
 

Isaac Lai

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It should be noted that Lucas Etter, Rami Sbahi, Yu Da-Hyun and many others started cubing and got more than decent timings at a relatively young age..
 
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