M slice, is it really necessary? p.s. I use roux.

[js5752]

Hi all,

I'm a roux solver, and have been for many years. I switch from CFOP because
A. Less algs
B. The middle slices just look cool!!!

I'm finding myself starting to do a 3M' vs M.
This feels faster, and it's more comfortable, but am I sacrificing speed for ease of turning?
I haven't timed it straight out, so I can't give hard numbers which is why I say it "feels" faster.
My regular M moves are becoming more of a half l, M half L'. Is anybody else doing a backwards triple M?

Thanks,
-Jeff

 

[Garf]

Hi all,

I'm a roux solver, and have been for many years. I switch from CFOP because
A. Less algs
B. The middle slices just look cool!!!

I'm finding myself starting to do a 3M' vs M.
This feels faster, and it's more comfortable, but am I sacrificing speed for ease of turning?
I haven't timed it straight out, so I can't give hard numbers which is why I say it "feels" faster.
My regular M moves are becoming more of a half l, M half L'. Is anybody else doing a backwards triple M?

Thanks,
-Jeff

I mean one of my algs uses an R3 since it’s makes the finger tricks easier and it doesn’t really change the speed of the alg for me. Have you spent time going through what you know and try to implement your new finger trick and determine whether it’s faster for you or not? I’m a CFOP solver but algs on every puzzle are pretty much the same: learn them, figure out recognition and finger tricks, and spend an infinite amount of time making them better and faster for you.

 

[Fred]

I'd recommend practicing M' M, with the M being bringing your finger back to its starting position and pulling the slice back with it. This way you can do M' U M to very quickly solve the arrow edge orientation case (3 misoriented on top, 1 on bottom). Otherwise you'd have to do four M' moves in very quick succession.

M moves are certainly more awkward for me than M' moves, but I can alternate Ms and M's quite well, and I think that's an important fingertrick to learn.

 

[precompsubwr]

I avg 10-11 with roux (my main method is CFOP btw) I think you should try getting used to doing both types of M moves, but when you have the choice with M2 or M2' you should definitely go for M2' (My algs are ~40% faster with M2' than M2)
Get used to doing M like a reversed M' like @Fred said

And for OH same thing, although it is tougher to get used to M moves but once you got it down it's pretty easy

 

[THE_V01DL0RD]

I mean one of my algs uses an R3 since it’s makes the finger tricks easier and it doesn’t really change the speed of the alg for me.

What's the alg
Jc

 

[Garf]

What's the alg
Jc

No.
R' U R' U' R3 U' R' U R U R2

 

[THE_V01DL0RD]

No.
R' U R' U' R3 U' R' U R U R2

Jc=just curious

 

[Garf]

Jc=just curious

Oh I thought you meant jc as in a jc perm. fp

 

[THE_V01DL0RD]

Oh I thought you meant jc as in a jc perm. fp

Tf is a JC perm

 

[Garf]

Tf is a JC perm

prolly some 4x4 pll parity case lol

 

[Puzzle Maniac]

Oh I thought you meant jc as in a jc perm. fp

reminds me of when i had a dream about the successor to bPaul 7 simul: cPaul

 

[THE_V01DL0RD]

prolly some 4x4 pll parity case lol

Found it
Apparently 4x4 also has RG perms?

 

[Garf]

View attachment 37350
Found it
Apparently 4x4 also has RG perms?

4x4 pll parity gets crazy man

 

[Curunír]

Hi all,

I'm a roux solver, and have been for many years. I switch from CFOP because
A. Less algs
B. The middle slices just look cool!!!

I'm finding myself starting to do a 3M' vs M.
This feels faster, and it's more comfortable, but am I sacrificing speed for ease of turning?
I haven't timed it straight out, so I can't give hard numbers which is why I say it "feels" faster.
My regular M moves are becoming more of a half l, M half L'. Is anybody else doing a backwards triple M?

Thanks,
-Jeff

I don't main Roux but in my experience with using it most of the time M moves are better than M3

 

[abunickabhi]

Do you use left hand or right hand for the M move fingertricks?

 

[js5752]

Do you use left hand or right hand for the M move fingertricks?

Right ring finger for M moves.

 

[ruffleduck]

- Use left hand for M moves.
- Use right index for U moves (normal U, push U')
- Be able to use both the left middle and left ring for M and M' moves. For example, M' U M is optimally executed: left ring M' > right index U > left middle M. Having both ring and middle allows for alternation and avoiding of overworks.

sincerely, not a roux expert and someone who sucks at MU turning.

 

[efattah]

If you are new to M-U moves, M certainly takes a lot more training than M'. Unlike M' there is more than one way to do M depending on the algo, usually you use your ring finger and push the back bottom of the cube. However you can also use your left or right thumb at the upper front of the cube to push the slice 'down'; this is slower and much more rarely needed. There is no circumstance I can possibly imagine where M3 would be faster than M. As others have noted, it is true that R3 or L3 can sometimes be the fastest option (vs. R' L') but that is never true for M moves.
There is yet another super-old-school method of doing M moves that is sometimes needed but very very rarely for certain algorithms, and that is to do r' R, or l L', we did that a lot in the 80's when the cubes were too stiff for finger tricks, but even today there are rare algorithms that can still use that combo.

 

[Brouxt Force]

Here's Kian Mansour's video on Roux finger tricks (timestamped for when he covers M moves):

You may want to check out Kian Mansour's other videos; his channel is a gold mine for the Roux method.

I don't know of any case where M3' would be faster than M, because M3' must be done with three flicks. This is not the same for R3 moves, as these can be executed with a single wrist movement.

For LSE, all M moves should be executed as a reverse M', but for the other steps you can be more flexible. You should generally avoid the Rw' R style of M moves.

It does not matter which hand you use for M moves; just do whatever you're comfortable with. I personally use my right hand for M moves, and I average sub 10 with Roux.

 

[LukasCubes]

If you are new to M-U moves, M certainly takes a lot more training than M'. Unlike M' there is more than one way to do M depending on the algo, usually you use your ring finger and push the back bottom of the cube. However you can also use your left or right thumb at the upper front of the cube to push the slice 'down'; this is slower and much more rarely needed. There is no circumstance I can possibly imagine where M3 would be faster than M. As others have noted, it is true that R3 or L3 can sometimes be the fastest option (vs. R' L') but that is never true for M moves.
There is yet another super-old-school method of doing M moves that is sometimes needed but very very rarely for certain algorithms, and that is to do r' R, or l L', we did that a lot in the 80's when the cubes were too stiff for finger tricks, but even today there are rare algorithms that can still use that combo.

When I do M-Moves, I noticed a lot, especially recently, that I’ve been using my middle finger for M/M’ way more than I usually do. I have no idea if this is related, but I also destroyed a bunch of PBs (Ao5 went from 9.22 to 9.17, Ao100 went from 11.02 to 10.5, Ao200 went from 11.2 to 10.8, all happened today) Idk if how I do my M-Moves has anything to do with it, since I usually just use my ring finger which is way more common for other cubers.