Let's Optimize TTLL

OreKehStrah

Member
Hey everyone,

I thought I would make a thread for everyone who is interested in working on optimizing TTLL.
I was going to try to do all of it myself, but I decided to actually start a thread so more people can work on it together, and improve the algset far faster than I could alone.

As a reference point, let's use Justin Taylor's algs and naming convention, which I will have linked below.

Basically, all 72 algs are broken down into 6 sets of 12 algs.
I've already started working on the double bar algs, and I'll post them below.

Hopefully more of you guys will join in this side project of mine, as I think TTLL has a lot of potential!

OreKehStrah

Member
These are the 12 Double Bar algorithms I made. I know some of these aren't great, but this is the first time I've made algs, so I'm in the process of learning!

The y, U, and D moves in the parenthesis are setup moves from the angle shown on Justin's algsheet.

Case and Alg:

1. (y') R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2

2. (y) F2 (T-Perm) F

3. R' U2 R U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R2 U2 R

4. (y) L2 (Rb-Perm) AUF L2 // I personally use (y) L2 R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 U' L2

5. (U2) R U2 R' U2 R U R' U2 R' F' R U2 R U2 R' F U' R U R' U2

6. R' D' R U R' D R U2 R U' R' U R U' R' U2 R U2 R' // This is Justin's RUD alg from his sheet. I did not personally find a better RUF Alg in my first attempt

7. R U2 R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R2 F' R U2 R U2 R' F R U2 R' U2

8. (y2) B2 (T-Perm) B2 // I execute the B2 as a D2 move and it flows really well

9. (y) F2 (Ra-Perm) AUF F2 // For the Ra-Perm that is most common, the AUF is a U'

10. R U L' U2 R U' R' U2 L R U' R2 // This is just an L-Perm/Ja-Perm conjugate, replacing the starting R' with R

11. R U R' U' R U' R' U' F' R' U2 R U2 F R U R' U' R' U R

12. R U' R' U F' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U'

dodecicosidodecahedron

Member
I've been interested in TOLS/TTLL for a while now, but I haven't put in the effort to learn it. Justin Taylor has a better algorithm set part of his Zipper method, which I believe is more interesting to look at & attempt to optimize. According to Justin, it's more efficient than ZB and has about 30% of the algs. You basically solve to F2L-1 as normal, then you solve L5C with one alg, and L5E with another.

Ribbon is still a pretty interesting method, so it might still be worth learning TOLS/TTLL depending on personal preference.

zzcuberman

Member
Im working on TTLL algs as well. I have quite a few new double opp and the 3 bar case algs generated that are pretty nice but looking through the front and right opposite they are pretty nice already. Maybe just cut down on the rotations in the right opp cases with some new algs

OreKehStrah

Member
For TTLL, I would like everyone to focus on making double bar algs. This is because if you use the fast alg that will insert the missing F2L corner (Third V perm recognition case in the double opposite category) with any double bar case, it gives diag PLL which is obviously trash. This will make learning TTLL easier because once you learn the double bar algs, you will always be able to just insert the corner and get a non-diag PLL. This will also help further develop the alg set if everyone focuses on finding really good algs for this set before moving on to the others.

ribbon method

Member
Im interested but I don't have the mount of brain powers you guys have how do you come up with commutators so fast damn

OreKehStrah

Member
Im interested but I don't have the mount of brain powers you guys have how do you come up with commutators so fast damn
No one makes algs by hand. You use computer software to find and sort them, them try the best looking ones and see what algs are good/fast.

ribbon method

Member
Now I know, but do you sometimes do commutators?

Thx

zzcuberman

Member
For TTLL, I would like everyone to focus on making double bar algs. This is because if you use the fast alg that will insert the missing F2L corner (Third V perm recognition case in the double opposite category) with any double bar case, it gives diag PLL which is obviously trash. This will make learning TTLL easier because once you learn the double bar algs, you will always be able to just insert the corner and get a non-diag PLL. This will also help further develop the alg set if everyone focuses on finding really good algs for this set before moving on to the others.
Any TTLL in the right set gives an EPLL at the end. Maybe i just understood? the algs arent that bad as they are i can sub 1 most of them

TerryD

Member
Any TTLL in the right set gives an EPLL at the end. Maybe i just understood? the algs arent that bad as they are i can sub 1 most of them
yeah, any ttll in the right set gives an epll. which algs do you think aren't bad? Most of the algs have regrips and weird moves for me, and I can only sub 1 a few of them, even though I can sub 1 all my PLLs.

trangium

Member
yeah, any ttll in the right set gives an epll. which algs do you think aren't bad? Most of the algs have regrips and weird moves for me, and I can only sub 1 a few of them, even though I can sub 1 all my PLLs.
R U' R' U R U2 R' U' R U R'

R' D R U' R D' R' (U/U2/U') R D R' U R' D' R

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zzcuberman

Member
Without having the time to look over them the double bar cases are alright compared to the double opposite. They are the worst in my opinion. My biggest complaint about all the algs in general is ergonomics involving the double turns. As they get optimized these should disapate though. That being said i love CT so i use them lol

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OreKehStrah

Member
Yes! You can always get an EPLL with an alg from the right set. The problem is that’s not very fast if it’s not the exact alg for the case. If you use x (R’ U R U’)3 with the D layer corner in the Front right position above the corner spot it goes to you can get to PLL with a super fast alg. This won’t always give you an EPLL but it will be fast. If you have good double bar algs then you’ll either know the TTLL or have a super fast way into either adj or EPLL

zzcuberman

Member
Yes! You can always get an EPLL with an alg from the right set. The problem is that’s not very fast if it’s not the exact alg for the case. If you use x (R’ U R U’)3 with the D layer corner in the Front right position above the corner spot it goes to you can get to PLL with a super fast alg. This won’t always give you an EPLL but it will be fast. If you have good double bar algs then you’ll either know the TTLL or have a super fast way into either adj or EPLL
Luckily i know full TTLL im just gonna generate some algs for the rest of the cases i hate lol

zzcuberman

Member
These are the algs i have for the bar cases. Some i genned, but most i didn't. i would love if some of you guys would see what you think about them and exchange some! Ill make my opposites list tommorow...

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zzcuberman

Member
These are all my TTLLs.

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TerryD

Member
@zzcuberman what are the names you've given to your ttlls? are they based on 2-sided pll recognition?