# I'm forgetting the algorithms

#### BlazingSlow

##### Member
Last week-end i've started some algorithms, R-perm for parity and Y-perm for Pochmann.

Until yesterday, i was mastering R-perm, today i've brushed my Y-perm, and used it, i've done it like 20-25 times with my eyes closed, today !

A few hours ago, i've started learning the J-perm, in like 20 minutes i was almost mastering it !!! i was like "WOW, wtf" !!!

After that, i tried to do the Y-perm, ... BLANK, nothing, i was remembering only bits from R-perm.

While looking at the algorithm ( R-perm ), i've remembered after i've made it a few times.
But i can't say the same thing about the Y-perm

Is it normal ?

##### Member
That is totally normal. When learning new algs it's easy to push more out of your brain.

I sat down to learn the rest of the PLL a few weeks ago, and as I learned new ones I forgot old ones. You just have to practice them evenly.

#### soccerking813

##### Member
Maybe just slow down a little. Or every time you do one alg, do another one just as many times so you don't forget them.
Just do them over and over again when you have nothing else to do.

#### kajitatsu

##### Member
When I was first learning algorithms I used the visual cues of the top face, eg which of the top faces were preserved after the first set of moves. I found this helpful but as time goes on the visual cues become less important because the hand is so used to executing it.

#### fanwuq

##### Member
Use them or lose them.
I never use R perm for parity. Just leave the last corner until you finish all the edges or just do another Y perm in place of the R.
Why does it take you 20 minutes to learn an alg? It should take no more than 3 minutes. Maybe I should make a video tutorial on how to learn algs.

1. Know how to recognize the case before you even bother learning the alg. It's stupid to learn algs that you don't know how to use.
2. While reading the notation, slowing do the alg 2 to 5 times.
3. Try to recall it why slowly turning.
4. I usually recall successfully. If I didn't, I would now recall it in chunks while looking at the cube.
5. You should now know the alg and call recall it slowly. Execute it a few times and try to speed it up.
6. Execute it 30 times. Now you have permanently mastered the alg and can execute it at over 4 tps, possibly even over 10 tps if it's a really fast alg.

Getting up to step 3 takes no more than 2 minutes. Finish step 6 might take about 5 more minutes depending on how long the alg is.

#### envy253

##### Banned
happened to me all the time, dont worry, when you actually see it in a solve, it just automatically comes back

#### Chuberchuckee

##### Member
Yes, it's normal. It's called retroactive interference: newly learned information interferes with previously-learned information.

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#### teller

##### REAL Fingertricks!
Yep...totally normal...just go back and "re-learn" what you suddenly forgot and it will all come back...this process actually tends to make things more permanent. Don't get frustrated by it...just laugh...and know that when you re-read the alg and go "DOH!" that you've probably crossed a final hurdle for that alg.

#### chimpzi

##### Member
try memorising algs 1 at a time. maybe 1 alg per day or every two days until you get used to it.

it took me more than a month i think to memo all the 21 PLLs.

#### eragg0

##### Member
back when i was learning PLL's i did forget 1 of 7 algs and needed to look it back. After those algs go to your muscle memory you will not forget them

PWNED!!!!!

#### Aeonstorm

##### Member
Try learning the finger tricks along with the algorithms at the same time using this video:

Using it, I've learn 17 of the 21 PLLs in 4 days, except for the G Perms. To reinforce them, everytime I pick up my cube, I go through each of the perms as many times as I need to to make the cube go back to the solved position. I then do a couple of solves trying to utilize the pll cases (unless its G, then i just use a corner switcher and edge switcher), and then to finish it off, I just go through each PLL again.

#### shoot1510

##### Member
Try to review all algorithms you know each day so you won't forget because if you just learn a new algorithm in 1 day and you didn't try it tomorrow, chances are you might forget a algorithm. This happen to me when I did a oll algorithm "Headlight" and I mostly forgot it, I don't even remember it. So I retaught myself again.

If it a short-term-memory then you might just forgot the algorithm today then the algorithm might come back to your head whatever oll or pll algorithm you forgot.

#### Zarxrax

##### Member
What's funny is I have been trying to learn the 4x4 recently, and sometimes when I go to do an algorithm, since I can't do the same fingertricks and it feels different from my 3x3, I will totally forget some algorithms! Whats worse is sometimes I will pick up my 3x3 after that to see if I can see what the algorithm was, and then find that I can't do it on my 3x3 either. It usually comes back to me after a bit though, if I do some solves.

#### d4m4s74

##### Member
I just grabbed my sq1 again after a while of not using it and I forgot the parity alg

some practice brought it all back though

also, even though I use the Y perm all the time I still can't do it on digital cubes

#### byu

##### Member
I can perform a commutator correctly,but when I'm blindfolded I usually forget it.

That's why 4BLD is so hard for me

#### Thieflordz5

##### Member
I practice them for more than 20 minutes, although it takes me less than a minute or two to memorize them (maybe 3 for a long alg...)

I recommend not learning one every day because they kind of *push* out others... Personally I use visual cues, but since I'm assuming you're doing BLD, you may have to just remember exactly what goes after what... (e.g. be able to finish an alg from almost anywhere...)

#### JL58

##### Member
I don't have any of these problems on my 1x1. But it pops up every now and then on other puzzles.

In fact since I'm becoming better at intuitive F2L (which yielded in a 20+% time improvement, with no sign of stopping) I can't remember the moves when I need them.

I remember a math teacher of mine: "to learn anything forever, you'll have to forget them 7 times. He was referring to trigonometry and I don't know where he got the "7" from, but I learned one thing (on first time) that day: don't hesitate to forget important things if they are complex to you (and trig formulas were to me), the re-learning is part of the process. 35 years later, I still have most of them on the tip of tongue. I wish it was the same for the N perms, ah ah ah.

Interestingly enough, on the piano, I have to learn the score by heart before I study it. I can't read the the music fast enough. And then it stays forever - a mix of auditive and muscle memory.

#### abr71310

##### Member
I noticed that you (obviously) don't use the search function -- this happened to me after I finished learning all 21 PLLs -- all of a sudden I forgot my N-perms, R-perms and G-perms (And this is after 2 - 3 weeks of intense cubing), without warning!!! -- I also forgot my Z-perm in the middle of a timed solve that I was taking, so I ended up with a DNF and spent a half hour re-learning each algorithm step by step, trying to develop a new sense of patterns and recognition while re-learning each one.

Now it's not a matter or recognition or execution it's speed; I can't sub-3 any algorithm yet.

#### byu

##### Member
Not even T or y perm?