[Help Thread] Human Thistlethwaite Discussion and Help

[pistelli]

Hello all,

Recently I have been interested in learning human thistlethwaite, but the very first step is quite a stumbling block. I know about orienting edges from petrus, but this is quite different and I don't quite understand. Would someone please explain this or make a video explaining this. I'm sure that I'm not the only one with this question.

I just found this. It helped a bit, but was still pretty confusing. One reason was because he used a nonstandard color scheme.

 

[Marcell]

Look up the ZZ method. It's first step is called EOLine, which means orienting edges and building a line (DF-DB). You don't need the latter part, but you might find a good description about orienting edges and that's what you need.

Oh, there it is.
http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=eoline

Oh yeah, and make sure not to get distarcted by the fact that the Human Thistlethwaite tutorial puts the cube in the <U,D,F,B,R2,L2> group, while the ZZ tutorial puts it in the <U,D,R,L,F2,B2> group.

 

[pistelli]

Thanks a lot!

 

[jiggy]

"Bad" edges:

FRONT/BACK FACE:
Any top/bottom edges

TOP/BOTTOM FACE:
Any front/back edges

LEFT/RIGHT FACE:
top/bottom edges in the top or bottom row
OR
front/back edges in the front or back row



To fix bad edges, rotate them to the LEFT/RIGHT face using ONLY <U,D,F,B,R2,L2> moves. Once you have four bad edges on one LEFT/RIGHT face perform an L/R turn to change the four bad edges into good edges.

If you only have two bad edges remaining, rotate them to UF and UL (for example) and perform (L F' L' F) to fix them.

This page is quite helpful.


I <3 HTA!

 

[pistelli]

Do U,D,F, and B turns include there counterclockwise forms?

 

[Kynit]

Yes. Three U turns make a U', three D turns make a D', etc.

 

[Cubenovice]

Massive bump ;-)

But I prefer not to open a new thread with Human Thistlethwaite discussion.
I think this method deserves more attention and perhaps Stachu's recent 3x3x3 method post will make some people check it out.

Human Thistlethwaite method as described on Ryan Heise's Site:
This is the short description without any algs, please check Ryan's site for the more detailled description.

Phase 1 -> <U,D,L,R,F2,B2> group
- simple, no algorithms

Phase 2 -> <U,D,L2,R2,F2,B2> group
- Direct up/down edges to up/down face (simple, no algs)
- Direct corners to up/down face (between 8 and 60 algs)

Phase 3 -> <U2,D2,L2,R2,F2,B2> group
- Corners (between 1 and 2 algs)
- Edges (between 1 and 4 algs)

Phase 4 -> place pieces
- Corners (intuitive)
- Edges (intuitive)

I will post some solves that I did in the "example solve" thread to illustrate the method.

Example solve (copied from today's example solve thread, scramble not picked by me)

Scramble: D2 B' U' D' B' F2 L2 U L2 R F' B' R L B2 D2 R2 L2 U2 F2 B U2 D B2 D

B' D R L' B' EO 5
L U2 L top/bottom edges and 4 corners 8
F' D' F D' F' D2 F orient corners 15
D2 F2 separate corners 17
R U' R F2 R' U R' pair up corners 24
R2 L2 D' L2 R2 fix bad edges 28 (R2 cancels 1 move with previous R')
U' F2 B2 U2 D2 align stuff 33
F2 R' L D2 L' R edge cycle 39

39 HTM Definately my HTA PB regarding movecount

Alg garron: B' D R L' B'L U2 LF' D' F D' F' D2 FD2 F2 R U' R F2 R' U R'R2 L2 D' L2 R2U' F2 B2 U2 D2F2 R' L D2 L' R

 

[Hershey]

I once attempted to learn HTA.
a video tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5luzfkO48
demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0o_CD0O5s4

 

[irontwig]

That's 40 HTM, but 33 STM .

 

[Cubenovice]

I once attempted to learn HTA.
a video tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5luzfkO48
demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0o_CD0O5s4

Yeah I know that one but unfortunately there is no response whenn inquiring for the "advanced" alg set...

That's 40 HTM, but 33 STM .

You made me doubt myself there...
I had to count many times, even got to 41 HTM because I counted UD edges as U and D
I changed that to top / bottom edges and highlighted the cancelling R moves (but leave them in for educational purposes)

 

[StachuK1992]

Yay! I'll try to contribute fairly soon here.

More needs to be done about this, surely.

 

[Cubenovice]

Another HTA solve I did in the example solve about two weeks ago:

Next: L2 F' R' L2 F2 R F R' U B' F2 R U L2 R' B' U' B' L B2 D' B D' B2 L

D R F2 D F - EO
L' U' L - edges
F2 R2 - E Belt (why?)
L' B L F' L' B' L F - orient corners
R' B R F' R' B' R F - orient corners
U F2 U' D2 F2 - separate corners
B U' B R2 B' U B' - pair up corners
M2 D' - fix bad edges
L2 S L2 S'- edge 3 cycle
R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 - swap 2 pairs of edges
E L2 E' L2- edge 3 cycle

~ 60 HTM

I hope I wrote down the directions of the S and E moves correctly though.
Yet another reason to always write in "FMC" mode.

Basically following the Heise HTA approach but using 2xOLL for orienting corners.
I think 60 HTM is "fair" for this approach

 

[Hershey]

I knew about this method for a long time:
Human Kociemba (17.98 sec solve done by kirjava)

 

[Cubenovice]

here's another nice one:

fmc.mustcube.net scramble 351:
U B2 U F2 L R2 B U' D' B2 D L2 B2 F D' F2 L2 F B U2 D L D R' D F D' U' R' B

F R U' R' B EO 5
L2 D L Up and Down edges 8
L' U' L U' L' U2 L Sune OLL 13
B D B' D B D2 B' Sune OLL 20
D . L2 separate UD corners 22
D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D B2 D pair up corners 31
D' B2 undo some moves to check for a nice pos for bad edge fix 29
L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D fix bad corners + ADF 35
R' L B2 L' R D2 edge 3 cycle 41

41 HTM with cancellations
F R U' R' B L2 D U' L U' L' U2 L B D B' D B D2 B' D L2 D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D R' L B2 L' R D2

Not bad for a solve with two OLL's

EDIT: at . insert edge cycle D2 F' B R2 F B' to cancel 1 move = 40 HTM
F R U' R' B L2 D U' L U' L' U2 L B D B' D B D2 B' D' F' B R2 F B' L2 D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D

 

[OMGitsSolved]

here's another nice one:

fmc.mustcube.net scramble 351:
U B2 U F2 L R2 B U' D' B2 D L2 B2 F D' F2 L2 F B U2 D L D R' D F D' U' R' B

F R U' R' B EO 5
L2 D L Up and Down edges 8
L' U' L U' L' U2 L Sune OLL 13
B D B' D B D2 B' Sune OLL 20
D L2 separate UD corners 22
D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D B2 D pair up corners 31
D' B2 undo some moves to check for a nice pos for bad edge fix 29
L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D fix bad corners + ADF 35
R' L B2 L' R D2 edge 3 cycle 41

41 HTM with cancellations
F R U' R' B L2 D U' L U' L' U2 L B D B' D B D2 B' D L2 D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D R' L B2 L' R D2

Not bad for a solve with two OLL's

Could using EPOCBL from me and erzz's LBCM method help in a HTA?

 

[Cubenovice]

For speed HTA I think your "parity" alg for twisting a single corner on U could be quite usefull.

For regular HTA style I think large alg sets go somewhat "against the spirit"

 

[irontwig]

Just a fun thought: Redux: 2x2x3=>F2L=>OLL Finish: 2x2x3=>F2L=>PLL.

 

[Hershey]

Do robots solve the cube with HTA? If they do solve the cube with this "method", does that mean we are learning how to...
think like a robot? 0__0
(Just kidding).

anyway, what is speed HTA?

Edit: fail. robots wouldn't solve with Human Thistlethwaite.

 

[Cubenovice]

anyway, what is speed HTA?

Just a wild guess: Solving a cube with HTA as fast as you can?

 

[uberCuber]

Do robots solve the cube with HTA?

You serious? It stands for Human Thistlethwaite.

anyway, what is speed HTA?

Lolwtf?