• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

PiKeeper

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
204
Location
Virginia
WCA
2021KLIN02
Instead of learning ZZ, is it better to learn ZBLS and VHLS (not counting Mirrors and Backslots) if you're still going to use ZBLL? What're the pros and cons of this?
Vhls isn't worth it compared to doing normal insert+oll+pll. If you really don't want to leave zz learn zbls, but I would recommend trying zz out. It's just as fast as cfop if you know zbll.
 

Eli Apperson

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
1,068
Location
Las Vegas, NV
WCA
2022APPE01
YouTube
Visit Channel
What I meant is, not learning ZZ. Just using ZBLS/VHLS (FR slot only, excluding mirrors) with ZBLL with CFOP, instead of learning ZZ. Is that feasible or just too much work?
Ah, I misread the question. The zb method is 700 something algs if I recall correctly, and it puts up similar times to cfop. If you want the eoll experience, I would try ZZ out, but I don't the zb for cfop is worth it
 

oMaxwell

Member
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
2
Location
England
I know most of cfop, cross (obviously), intuitive fl2, 2 step oll, 2 step pll + t ,y ,ja ,jb ,f perm and am learning plls fast

after pll, should i learn oll then a subset or stay with 2 step oll
 

yCArp

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Messages
43
Location
Nowhere
Learn OLL. Trust me, as what Thom has said as a reply to one of my exact same queries, as well as what I have experienced, delaying your knowledge of Full OLL will only serve to hinder your improvement. I am not saying that full OLL dictates the biggest improvement in your times, but it has a significant impact.
 
Last edited:

IsThatA4x4

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2021
Messages
585
Location
UK
WCA
2022RITC01
Do I have to learn Cross+1? Why can't I just work on improving F2L and lookahead?
You can do exactly that, but there's a point where improving in that results in such minimal time gain that you should learn a new technique.
Cross + 1 is mainly good for consistency imo, my biggest cause of inconsistency is pairs 1 & 2 after cross.
It doesn't gain much time, maybe a second at most, but it's more of a quality of life thing.
 

yCArp

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Messages
43
Location
Nowhere
All right, I am back with another query on intuitive F2L vs algorithmic F2L. So here,


What ottozing was implying, as I could tell, was that learning algorithms for F2L can really benefit in F2L lookahead. However, this definitely puts down efficiency which is the strong point intuitive F2L, but is such a compromise worth it in the context of a speedsolve? I would like to seek some opinions on this.
 

bulkocuber

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
259
Location
Italy
All right, I am back with another query on intuitive F2L vs algorithmic F2L. So here,


What ottozing was implying, as I could tell, was that learning algorithms for F2L can really benefit in F2L lookahead. However, this definitely puts down efficiency which is the strong point intuitive F2L, but is such a compromise worth it in the context of a speedsolve? I would like to seek some opinions on this.
I don't understand.
F2L is intuitive, but it becomes an algorithmic when you can do it without thinking. I don't see the difference between those two, so could you provide me with an example of the same F2L case solved intuitively and algorithmically?
It really depends on what you mean by intuitive F2L, because to me everything about F2L is intuitive.
 

Timona

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
587
Location
Port-Harcourt, Nigeria
YouTube
Visit Channel
I don't understand.
F2L is intuitive, but it becomes an algorithmic when you can do it without thinking. I don't see the difference between those two, so could you provide me with an example of the same F2L case solved intuitively and algorithmically?
It really depends on what you mean by intuitive F2L, because to me everything about F2L is intuitive.
F2L 31
Intuitive solution - R U' R' y' R' U2 R(take out the pair, rotate and insert into the back)
Algorithmic solution - U' R' F R F' R U' R'
 

bulkocuber

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
259
Location
Italy
F2L 31
Intuitive solution - R U' R' y' R' U2 R(take out the pair, rotate and insert into the back)
Algorithmic solution - U' R' F R F' R U' R'
I would consider both intuitive and algorithmic, with the difference that the second one is slightly more advanced.
You can easily explain why both work and it wouldn't be hard to come up with them. However, if you're used to one of them in particular to solve that case (enough to make it become muscle memory) wouldn't you consider both of them as algorithms?

That's the problem with differentiating between algorithmic and intuitive (within the contest of useful F2L). When you learn how to solve a case, you always understand how it works, so that when you come across that case In a solve you can just remember the basic idea and solve it (maybe with some esitations at first). Executing that solution more and more times that will become muscle memory and you will treat it as an alg (and still understand it, obviously).

I'd just use the term "advanced" for the efficient solutions, but that doesn't mean that it isn't intuitive.
🛸
 

Imsoosm

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2022
Messages
943
Location
Teaching baby ducks how to fly
I need help learning these PLL's: Na, Nb, Aa, Ab, Ra, Rb, Ga, Gb, Gc, and Gd. If anybody could help me, it would be very appreciated!
What exactly do you need help on? Memorization? Fingertricks? You can find algs for all of these on speedcubedb.com, as for memorization, just group the moves into "triggers", so for example, here's Na:
(R U R' U) (R U R' F') (R U R' U') R' F R2 U' R' (U2 R U' R')
The moves in quotations are sets of moves, like "sexy", which is R U R' U'. You can also group stuff like sledgehammer, R' F R F'.
Na could also be memorized as R U R' U [Jb perm] U' R U' R'

Fingertricks can be found all over youtube.
 
Top