# How do you go about creating algorithms for more advanced puzzles like the Square-1?

#### Mallot1

##### Member
Hello everyone!

I have been trying to figure out how to solve the Square-1. I have some ideas and tried things that might possibly work / be needed for solving the puzzle, but I really need to be able to write algorithms for this puzzle. My problem is that the Square-1 doesn't have a solid shape / state which makes it difficult for me to figure out how to be able to write even basic algorithms. I don't want to look up the solution / solving guide. I would like to write my own algorithms and figure out how to solve the puzzle that way. Please help.

Important: PLEASE NO SPOILERS OR ALGORITHMS ON HOW TO SOLVE THE SQUARE-1 OR SIMILAR PUZZLES. I'm just trying to figure out how to write algorithms for this kind of advanced puzzle

Thanks!

#### Mike Hughey

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
One thing that makes it difficult to respond to this post is that it is hard for us to tell what you would consider help for how to construct algorithms, versus what you would consider a spoiler. I can think of many things I could tell you, but most of them would be at least a limited bit of a spoiler on how to solve the puzzle.

In general, when first tackling a new puzzle it's easiest to find commutators to solve just a few pieces at a time on the puzzle, while leaving other pieces alone. The fact that square-1 changes shape implies something about how to more easily solve it, so that you can tell that you're in fact performing a commutator. But I'm not sure if saying what that means constitutes something you would consider a spoiler, so I'm not sure I should say what that implication is.

I can appreciate you wanting to solve it on your own; I'm very happy with the fact that I came up with a reliable method for solving the square-1 before I learned a good method. My method was terrible, often requiring hundreds of moves to solve it, but it was a reliable method, so I am proud of it despite how inefficient it was.

#### Mallot1

##### Member
Hey Mike Hughey,

Thanks for your reply . I can see what you are saying about it being difficult to answer. I'm just looking for how you would go across solving this type of puzzle if you just got it and have scrambled it and it's time to take the first step. From what you said I can see I need to look for more materials on commutators some more. I've tried in the past when I was working on and eventually created my solution to the Skewb. Would you happen to know of a good place to learn about commutators? For me I can't even think of how I would even notate moves on this puzzle. I guess I need to work on the puzzle more and I'll figure that bit out eventually.

Thanks

#### bcube

##### Member
Hello Mallot1,

as for a Square-1 notation, you could use the one which basically every speedcuber uses: consider moves of the form (x,y) and moves of the form /. In an (x,y) twist, x indicates the number of 30-degree increments that the top layer should be twisted clockwise (an edge is 30 degrees and a corner is 60 degrees), and y indicates the number of 30-degree increments that the bottom should be twisted clockwise. A / twist simply refers to turning the entire right half of the puzzle by 180 degrees. It is important to note that in this notation the puzzle must be held so that the layers containing the corners and edges are on the top and bottom.

X and y could be negative, indicating the reverse direction (anti-clockwise turn).

Does that make sense?

Good luck solving the puzzle on your own.