# [Help Thread] Blindfolded discussion and help

#### SpiFunTastic

##### Member
I'm not able to learn 3 blind edges, can anyone help?

#### JustAnotherGenericCuber

##### Member
I'm not able to learn 3 blind edges, can anyone help?
Have you watched this video?

#### Steel

##### Member
I am currently trying to learn Orcozco corners, but I can't seem to figure it out. I am trying to do the comms intuitively, and I thought that I understood how to. However, when I perform what I think is the correct comm, it doesn't work.
For example, using Speffz, when I try to do the comm for H, I do [R D' R', U]. I would think this would work, as R D' R inserts H to helper and U interchanges H and buffer. However, the correct comm is [R D' R, U'], which to me seems like it does the exact same thing.
For another example, what I think the comm for R is: [L2: [R D2 R', U]]. To explain why I think this, L2 is setup, R D2 R' inserts R into helper, and U interchanges R and buffer. The correct comm is [R': [U2, R' D' R]] , which I struggle to understand/would never think of.
Any help is appreciated!

#### GenTheThief

##### Member
For the second case, at least, I'll confirm that that one is an irregular case. Instead of doing a set up->alg, you can use a COLL algorithm to solve for it.
I don't know what's up with the first one-- it might just be a typo.
E: Okay so if you do that alg on a solved cube, you'll see that it doesn't cycle the pieces correctly. I don't exactly remember, but when you insert a corner into the helper spot, you push the buffer to the helper spot rather than the other way around. Another way to solve that case I think would be [D2: R' D' R, U].

For reference, I did learn Orozco, but I never ended up switching and still use OP/M2.

#### Steel

##### Member
Oh thanks I get it now! I was just using the wrong interchange.

#### jronge94

##### Member
The one thing I'd recommend is to only learn Orozco if you intend to learn full 3-style for corners. and try to find the best speed optimized comms for the UBR target (B in Speffz)

#### jronge94

##### Member
UBUL swap, which is what you should also be doing for 3bld and 4bld
???
5BLD I imagine to memo midges first, but then you don't know if you have to memo the swap.But my main issue, memoing a swap on 4BLD?
How does that even work?

U

#### Underwatercuber

##### Guest
???
5BLD I imagine to memo midges first, but then you don't know if you have to memo the swap.But my main issue, memoing a swap on 4BLD?
How does that even work?
Memo corners first and you can do the swaps.

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
???
5BLD I imagine to memo midges first, but then you don't know if you have to memo the swap.But my main issue, memoing a swap on 4BLD?
How does that even work?
You memo corners first, and if parity then memo and solve the UB and UL wings into swapped positions. The benefit is less with 4BLD though, as although you can avoid solving PLL parity during corners, wing parity is independent and more expensive to solve.

It's more worthwhile in 5BLD as corner/midge parity otherwise involves fixing wings as well as midges, which is also expensive.

#### jronge94

##### Member
It just seems odd to me to memo centers than wings than corners than midges and inverse midges and corners during execution.
I like my solves linear during bigbld, but then again I'm not good at the bigbld.

#### redoxxy

##### Member
Hi all, I need help to become more consistent in blind events.

I'm using comms with UBL/UF buffers, am around 50 s in 3bld (memo 15 / pausy exe 25-45…), and keep DNFing a lot. Especially officially where my success rate is lower than 15% for 3bld and even worse for bigBLD. I also can't get good MultiBLD attempts.

I think my main problem is that I forget my memo as soon as I have to think about a comm. I also have better attempts if I don't review the memo, which is what I'm kind of afraid to do officially. At comps, I get nervous and review much too often, which is also why I'm much slower than at home.

At the recent Swiss Nationals I was seeded top 3 for 3-5bld, but DNFed all of it. The initial frustration is slowly turning into motivation again, any advice?

I was thinking about drilling exe/comms and maybe try some rush mini multiBLDs where I'll focus on thinkahead during exe…

M O

#### Dylan Swarts

##### Member
Okay so I am transitioning to 3 style. Focus on corners for now, will start edges as soon as I'm more confident in corners.
After watching Jake Klassen's video on his opinion of intermediate methods, I decided to entirely do 3 style by myself. So I did a corner scramble and then memo'd, then during exec I would figure out the comms, worked pretty okay.
The thing is, I basically setup one of my targets of the letter pair to either UBL, UBR, UFL and then do the optimal comm for that cycle (I know the optimal for any comm involving those 3 as one of the targets)
UFR-BUL-LDB I would do either L setup into UFR- UFL- LFU optimal comm of: [U' R:[R D R', U2]], or I would do a B' setup into UFR-UBL-BUR. Typing it now I think the former is better due to both the B move in the other and the less nice comm
But for example the cycle UFR-LFU-LFD if I did that it'd be a L' B' setup which is gross, and then that comm. The optimal is obviously [U' R' U, L'].

I have watched Noah's tutorial and finding which two targets can be interchanged by a move and then the opposite layer will be the second move in the insertion, but this would mean a lot of rotations. Like UFR-LUB-RFD would be [x' U':[D', R U R']] whereas this comm: [D' R U:[R' D R' U]] is optimal, probably.
Basically I can choose between setups to a U face target and doing a comm, or doing it like Noah's tutorial. My plan from there is to optimalize my comms from A-X one by one, which will eliminate bad comms bit by bit, or atleast improve bad comms by a little, as setup locations are more.

Can anyone maybe give me their opinion on this or give me some advice?

#### Keroma12

##### Member
The optimal is obviously [U' R' U, L'].
Is it obvious? I use R' U' setup.

[...]
After watching Jake Klassen's video on his opinion of intermediate methods, I decided to entirely do 3 style by myself.
[...]
Can anyone maybe give me their opinion on this or give me some advice?
Do you mean you want to create your own list yourself from scratch, instead of using other people's lists?

If you don't mind using other lists, I'd recommend going through each case one at a time as follows. Try and find something good, then check out a few lists to see if there is anything nicer that you missed. If you find something nicer in a list, but it's "too complicated" (you don't feel comfortable with following or understanding it, or whatever) at this stage, then just leave that case blank and move to the next one. If you find something nice, yourself or on a list, then put it in your list. Once finished, go through all the blanks again after a break. You'll probably find some of the "too complicated" algs more reasonable by now, and might even discover them on your own. Repeat. (This process could take a few days or a few months, doesn't really matter.)

#### Dylan Swarts

##### Member
Is it obvious? I use R' U' setup.
Oh yes that one is also nice. I figured the other one out myself from a different angle or something, then saw it on someone's list.
I don't mind using lists, my plan was using Graham's list and then like you said, look for other ones when I get cases I don't like.
If you don't mind using other lists, I'd recommend going through each case one at a time as follows. Try and find something good, then check out a few lists to see if there is anything nicer that you missed. If you find something nicer in a list, but it's "too complicated" (you don't feel comfortable with following or understanding it, or whatever) at this stage, then just leave that case blank and move to the next one. If you find something nice, yourself or on a list, then put it in your list. Once finished, go through all the blanks again after a break. You'll probably find some of the "too complicated" algs more reasonable by now, and might even discover them on your own. Repeat. (This process could take a few days or a few months, doesn't really matter.)
This sounds like advice for when I want to optimalize my comms, right? Or did you mean for now? Because I am still confused about whether this
The thing is, I basically setup one of my targets of the letter pair to either UBL, UBR, UFL and then do the optimal comm for that cycle
is fine for while I do your suggested plan? Thanks

#### Keroma12

##### Member
This sounds like advice for when I want to optimalize my comms, right? Or did you mean for now? Because I am still confused about whether this
[...]
is fine for while I do your suggested plan? Thanks
I guess I kind of meant for optimizing your list right from the start.

If you want to make a list and then optimize it later then I'm not sure I have any particular advice for that. But I don't think that's very efficient; though obviously it depends on what your priorities are. One downside is that you will form habits of doing 'bad' setups like L moves and such.

#### RouxUser_69420

##### Member
So I am currently learning OP for 3BLD edges and I want to learn TuRBo later on but the problem is I can't really grasp OP but I think TuRBo would be a lot easier for me to understand. I don't know why, but the concept sounds really great to me, it's probably the UF buffer and the simple 3-cycle algs that I enjoy. What do I do?

#### Dylan Swarts

##### Member
I have no experience with Turbo but IMO I would recommend M2 for edges. It takes less moves than OP edges. OP edges are quite easy to understand.. maybe continue using it until you grasp how the method works. Then I would advise stay with OP corners and use M2 edges. J perm has a tutorial on it on YouTube.

#### RouxUser_69420

##### Member
I have no experience with Turbo but IMO I would recommend M2 for edges. It takes less moves than OP edges. OP edges are quite easy to understand.. maybe continue using it until you grasp how the method works. Then I would advise stay with OP corners and use M2 edges. J perm has a tutorial on it on YouTube.
Thanks, I have considered M2 in the past but I don't really like the idea that much, and if I don't use a method that I don't enjoy using, the whole event just becomes a struggle to improve and just robotically doing things, whereas with a method I enjoy, it's actually fun and I feel like I'm actually putting the effort I want to put in. The same thing happened to me with CFOP and Roux. Either way, thanks, and also sorry if some parts are incoherent since I come from Romania and also I'm but a mere child.

#### RouxUser_69420

##### Member
Seems like you have it figured out that you want to use turbo
Yeah, I guess so, but I don't know if learning OP first would give me more knowledge and experience of blindsolving before diving head-first into TuRBo.