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Help choosing a method (advanced)

Which method?

  • CFOP

  • Roux

  • LEOR

  • Mehta

  • ZZ

  • Other (tell me in post section)

  • Petrus

  • Waterman


Results are only viewable after voting.

Waffles

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Which method should I use as my main method?

CFOP:
Pros: used it for ages, I’m quite fast at f2l
Cons: boring, lookahead fails me sometimes and I’m not good at cross

LEOR:
Pros: seems pretty interesting and I feel like I’d get reasonable times with it
Cons: it’s the method I’ve looked into the least

Mehta:
Pros: high tps and mostly algorithm based
Cons: not many resources on it and blockbuilding

Roux:
Pros: lots of resources?
Cons: blockbuilding, slice moves, not used to intuitive solutions, blocks

ZZ:
Pros: like the concept of 2 gen f2l and edge orientation stuff
Cons: might be hard in inspection cause I’m not the greatest at using inspection amazingly


Let me know what you think but remember- always gonna be weighted towards CFOP :)
 
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Tbh LEOR for normal 3x3 isn't good. You could use it for OH though.
Mehta has only one blockbuilding step, first block. It's easy to get good at. If you like algs, this is the method for you.
Don't use Roux if you like big cubes.
Getting good at ZZ inspection is pretty hard but it's worth the effort.
 

abunickabhi

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Why not use all the methods actively, and choose the method you use for the solve in the 15 second inspection.
I have been method neutral since 2018, with CFOP, Roux and 3-style and it has been working great for me (10-11 second level), for sub-8 level though, I think it is better to stick with one method, as we do not have that much time to take such varied decisions.
 

Dhrutube

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Seeing as you're just moving on to an advanced method, of course all methods will seem hard.

If you're serious about cubing and want to get fast; if cubing is something competitive for you, go with CFOP. It has a lot of resources and advanced tutorials to get faster.
If you want something different but still are competitive (as you said you find cfop boring), try Roux. Its userbase has grown a lot in the past few years, so you will find plenty of help. The method's really efficient, both in terms of ergonomics and move-count. It only has 44 algs in total, which is easy to learn.
ZZ inspection is definitely a challenge, even for advanced cubers if they are new to the method. However, it has a lower move-count than CFOP at the cost of regrips (but CFOP has rotations so ZZ is still better there). The advantage of ZZ is that you will ALWAYS get a cross-OLL, which you can use for things like Winter Variation or ZBLL. Thus, last layer is also faster.
LEOR is not good for two-handed solving since you will need to pause after the first block for EO. That's why it's mainly used for OH. If you liked LEOR, Petrus is definitely worth a try for 2H. You build a 2x2x2 block, extend it into a 2x2x3, do EO, and then solve f2l and last layer. This means that the second half of the solve is just like ZZ, giving you a cross on top and no rotations BUT blockbuilding uses lesser moves than EO and f2l.

I would say Roux or CFOP is the best since they have a lot of resources, but it's up to you if you wanna do something different. (I use Petrus since I feel my tps isn't that good and Roux seems too mainstream)
 

Mathsoccer

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I don't think any of those methods would hold you back, so I would recommend spend about a week with each and seeing what you have the most fun with. My personal opinions are:
CFOP: Nice to spam tps, but has a high movecount and is a bit boring
Roux: A bit difficult to blockbuild, but I love the creative and efficient solutions
ZZ: Love F2L, hate eocross
Mehta: Great community, still finding improvements, high alg count, I'm so used to roux that block on bottom feels unnatural
LEOR: Haven't tried it, it's apparently not as good as the others for 2H
 

AlgoCuber

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ZZ inspection is definitely a challenge, even for advanced cubers if they are new to the method. However, it has a lower move-count than CFOP at the cost of regrips (but CFOP has rotations so ZZ is still better there). The advantage of ZZ is that you will ALWAYS get a cross-OLL, which you can use for things like Winter Variation or ZBLL. Thus, last layer is also faster.
Yeah, I agree that ZZ inspection is harder, but EOcross only takes around 3 moves more than CFOP cross on average while EOline takes less moves than CFOP cross. ZZ only has more regrips if you are using EOline, but if you are using EOcross the number of regrips is probably less than CFOP. Definitely use EOline for OH since ergo is different from 2H and there is a lower movecount. Plus, there are much fewer F2L cases in EOcross ZZ (Less than half), meaning you can multislot every time without learning many algorithms at all. ZZ lookahead is much better since there are much fewer F2L cases, meaning that it is very easy to decide which case to do. Doing EOline for ZZ also improves your lookahead because there are more blind spots. As you said, ZZ has EO already solved, so that opens up numerous amounts of possibilities for LSLL. Also, for people who say "ZZ has too many algs", 1LLL is the CFOP equivalent of ZBLL, which has around 8 times as many algs. OLL is the CFOP equivalent of OCLL, which also has around 8 times as many algs. For ZZ 2LLL, you have 28 algs. For CFOP 2LLL, you have 78 algs.

Mehta: Great community, still finding improvements, high alg count, I'm so used to roux that block on bottom feels unnatural
Mehta is good if you're willing to learn 130 or more algs. Maybe make a Mehta variant more suited for beginners with <50 algs?
 

LBr

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I do not want to say out of the blue, because I don't know what you're good at and bad at. I'd like to ask you..

How good are you with slice move fingertricks (ROUX/MEHTA), can you do a pushed M/S move and can you do an M2/S2 flick confidently?

How Many algorithms can you learn a day?

How good are you at blockbuilding? Can you use wide moves to save rotations (mainly ROUX) and can you optimise F2L to insert edges with pairs, and be rotationless with no f or b moves (ZZ).

Do you know how to do EO/do you think you could learn it? (ZZ/Mehta/LEOR/ ROUX (sorta)).

How long have you been cubing. If you are newer to cubing then just go for CFOP and if you have been cubing for several years look at my other questions and decide for yourself.

I hope this helps!

P.S. I don't know much about LEOR and Mehta. @Cubing Forever can help you with mehta if you need.
 

Mathsoccer

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Here's a link with resources for Mehta if you want to try it out.

To clear up some misconceptions, Mehta doesn't use that many M and S moves, maybe 0-2 per solve, and you only need to learn 3 simple algs for basic eo.
If you want to choose a path, I would recommend beginner TDR, its only 28 new algs and ends with OCLL and PLL. When you're first starting out, you can do it less efficiently and just use f2l inserts for TDR while you learn some of the algs.
 

PapaSmurf

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Learn them all and choose. You only need 4LLL algs for CFOP, ZZ, Roux, Petrus, LEOR, probably Mehta. I'd recommend ZZ or Roux. The disadvantages of inspection at a high level apply equally to all of them (there's always more you can inspect).

None of the methods are bad, but if you want my tier list, here it is: ZZ=Roux≥CFOP (depends on how many algs you use over OLL/PLL)>Mehta≥LEOR (I haven't compared Mehta and LEOR properly, but at a guess Mehta is probably better).
For OH: Roux>LEOR≥ZZ>CFOP>Mehta
For big cubes: the method you use really doesn't matter. M slices are good, you can inspect EO in less than 2 seconds not counting the lookahead you can have during edge pairing etc. It only matters if you only use Yau, but there are big cube methods that apply to Roux and ZZ and the others too.
 

AlgoCuber

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I found quite a few flaws in @LBr 's post

How good are you with slice move fingertricks (ROUX/MEHTA), can you do a pushed M/S move and can you do an M2/S2 flick confidently?
You never need to do a S2

How many algorithms can you learn a day?
Doesn't matter unless you're learning a ton of algs (ZBLL for example)

Can you use wide moves to save rotations (mainly ROUX)
You don't use wide moves to save rotations in Roux, it's necessary use it to build SB

be rotationless with no F or B moves (ZZ).
1. It's not like you have to force yourself to not use F or B moves, 90% of the time it's only logical to not
2. F and B moves are permitted in some F2L algs as long as they don't change EO (for example F' R U R' U' R' F R)
3. Why would you even try to rotate, as a ZZ user I never feel the urge to rotate

An extra thing I want to mention is that you should use EOcross for 2H and EOline for OH

Do you know how to do EO/do you think you could learn it? (ZZ/Mehta/LEOR/ROUX (sorta)).
EO for Mehta, LEOR, and Roux can be solved with algs. Roux doesn't really count. EO isn't hard and everyone can learn it

How long have you been cubing. If you are newer to cubing then just go for CFOP and if you have been cubing for several years look at my other questions and decide for yourself.
Uh... no. You could easily start off with Roux, LEOR, Petrus, or whatever. You can learn ZZ after you know intermediate CFOP, because they are very similar. However, that isn't to say the it would be harder to start off with ZZ right off the bat. For Mehta, maybe you could learn it after a few months because it has a lot of algs, but you definitely don't have to wait years. After all, if you wait too long, it will be harder to switch to other methods.

Note that CFOP is probably better for big cubes because inspection is the easiest (or you build most of it with Yau). The other methods can also be adapted to big cubes, but I find that they don't work as well (probably just me, sorry).
 
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AlgoCuber

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For OH: Roux>LEOR≥ZZ>CFOP>Mehta
If you have no trouble with doing M slices: Go with Roux or LEOR
If you have trouble with doing M slices: Go with EOline ZZ

Fun fact: Mehta 6CO recognition is good, you only need to recognize orientation of the U layer corners and DFR
 

CuberStache

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Mehta is good if you're willing to learn 130 or more algs. Maybe make a Mehta variant more suited for beginners with <50 algs?
There's a beginner's Mehta with 2-look versions of the necessary alg sets, which brings down the alg total to around 20, about half of which are commonly known algs like OCLLs and EPLLs.
As for the OP, I am biased toward Mehta as it's my main method. If you're willing to learn over 100 algs, it's definitely the choice for you. But I think the best advice has already been given: Learn them all, spend some time getting used to them, then pick the one you like the best. All the methods listed can get you sub-8 times with lots of dedication so just choose whichever seems best/most fun to you (except maybe LEOR lol, save that one for OH).
 

Waffles

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I just got home from school and had 37 emails from speedsolving lol

Also I’d like to say I’m actually fairly good at learning algs, I learnt a CLL in less than a week and it took me 2 weeks to learn full OLL. And 2 days for winter variation. I’m in the middle of Megaminx 4LLL and I’ve been working on that for a week intermittently.

Basically to sum it up I don’t like slice move algorithms. I use slice move Z Perm and H Perm because it’s optimal and reasonably fast but I think I have a big chance of screwing up slice moves. (I use M2 for BLD edges and I DNF 3/4 solve because I accidentally do an M3 or M)

And if I had to switch methods I’d go for ZZ or Mehta. Just saying.
 
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Here's a link with resources for Mehta if you want to try it out.
Oh wait! That's my doc! Thanks for spreading it!! :D

I do not want to say out of the blue, because I don't know what you're good at and bad at. I'd like to ask you..

How good are you with slice move fingertricks (ROUX/MEHTA), can you do a pushed M/S move and can you do an M2/S2 flick confidently?

How Many algorithms can you learn a day?

How good are you at blockbuilding? Can you use wide moves to save rotations (mainly ROUX) and can you optimise F2L to insert edges with pairs, and be rotationless with no f or b moves (ZZ).

Do you know how to do EO/do you think you could learn it? (ZZ/Mehta/LEOR/ ROUX (sorta)).

How long have you been cubing. If you are newer to cubing then just go for CFOP and if you have been cubing for several years look at my other questions and decide for yourself.

I hope this helps!

P.S. I don't know much about LEOR and Mehta. @Cubing Forever can help you with mehta if you need.
Mehta EO is algorithmic and you don't need a ton of algs for Mehta. Just beginner's(27 algs) is enough for sub 15. Also, there's no experience requirement for learning a method besides CFOP lol.
Afaik, S U' R U R' S2 R U' R' S and it's mirror are the only applications of S2 in CFOP and there's no S2s in any of the other methods lol

If you have no trouble with doing M slices: Go with Roux or LEOR
If you have trouble with doing M slices: Go with EOCross ZZ :D

Fun fact: Mehta 6CO recognition is good, you only need to recognize orientation of the U layer corners and DFR
Fun fact: 6CP and APDR recognize isn't bad either and you can predict PLL during APDR if you know what you're doing
Classic LEOR is bad for 2H but LEORb(222 in BDL, FL pair, EO+DF edge, finish) is okayish for 3x3.

To OP: I'm biased towards Mehta since it's my main method. If you love algs, you'll love it. ZZ is pretty good too but EO might be a hassle. Go with Roux(which is pretty elegant imo) if you're an alg hater or just become Tao Yu(or just stick with CFOP if you want to). LEOR for 2H is just out of the question.
 

povlhp

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Tbh LEOR for normal 3x3 isn't good. You could use it for OH though.
Mehta has only one blockbuilding step, first block. It's easy to get good at. If you like algs, this is the method for you.
Don't use Roux if you like big cubes.
Getting good at ZZ inspection is pretty hard but it's worth the effort.
Roux is great for big cubes. MGC cubes are designed to be good at moves. There is the Yau equivalent for Roux as well, learned it but forgot the name.
Creates FB + right down center on top.
 
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