# Hello! I Juggle and speedsolve

#### IRNjuggle28

##### Member
I am a juggler and a speedsolver. I'm much more experienced at juggling, and have been juggling for a lot longer. I know several other people that do both as well. When I began learning to solve cubes 3 months ago, I instantly noticed a LOT of similarity between juggling and solving. It's hard to explain, but they require very similar types of spatial awareness. Anybody who is a serious speedsolver and a serious technical juggler will know what I'm talking about. Also worth noting is that juggling has a notation system that shares some similarities with cube notation. I'm not going to explain it here; that'd take too long, but here's Wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siteswap) I had noticed many similarities even before getting involved in the online cubing community. But after seeing Chris Olson juggle 2 in one hand and solve a cube 1 handed behind his back, BLD style, with the other hand, seeing that one dude whose name I've forgotten juggle a cube while solving it, and seeing Stefan Pochmann juggle 5 balls, I am astounded by how connected cubing and juggling seem to be.

Just like a lot of cubers, jugglers are very on and off. Juggling is extremely frustrating. Even the world record holders go months or years barely juggling at all. It's that bad. It is fascinating and very addictive, and anybody who enjoys speedsolving should give it a look. One notable difference between cubing and juggling is that cubing is a lot more constrained. You're fighting a timer. That is not the case with juggling. You're just fighting gravity and your own coordination (or lack thereof). The more you learn how to do in juggling, the more you can learn. That sounds counter intuitive, but it's not. If you can juggle 4 balls instead of 3, you have way more possible patterns to do; just as a 4x4 cube has way more permutations than a 3x3. The more you learn, the more you CAN learn.

Time for some juggling talk that almost nobody here will get much of!
After 6.5 years (on and off), My numbers PBs are:
5 balls - forever
6 balls - ~180 catches
7 balls - 43 catches
8 balls - 16 catches
9 balls - 9 catches
5 clubs - ~125 catches
6 clubs - 9 catches
5 rings - ~130 catches
6 rings - 17 catches
7 rings - 7 catches

After 3 months of cubing, my 3x3 PBs: (using cross, F2L, and beginners method LL. (Yes, I'm still procrastinating OLL and PLL)
AO12 - 28.30
AO5 - 25.93
Single - 16.24

Anybody who is a juggler and a cuber feel free to share your juggling and/or cubing PBs, and anything else even remotely relevant. There's so many ways that juggling and cubing can be combined and can complement each other, as well. We've seen OH BLD solving while juggling with the other hand, and solving a cube while juggling it. There are surely way more cool things that can be done with the two. One thing I've thought of is juggling AND solving blindfolded. With balls, it's very difficult, but clubs (because they have a handle, which is easier to catch without looking) can actually be juggled blindfolded if you're good enough. I'm probably at the level that I could juggle 2 clubs in one hand blindfolded, but I can't BLD solve cubes. I need to get better at cubing before trying juggling and blindsolving together. Anyway.Time for a brain dump, fellow cubers. Ideas?

#### stoic

Welcome to the forums! Your times are very decent for beginner LL.
I can juggle 3 balls but that's it. Since like years ago. I never really tried more but it always seemed like 4 balls needed a totally different technique to 3 or 5.
Might have a go if I ever get some spare time when I'm not cubing!

#### TP

##### Member
I´ve been able to juggle 3 balls for 6-7 years but just started to learn 4 balls, rings and clubs the last couple of weeks. They can both be frustrating for sure, as well as highly entertaining and worthwhile spending time doing.

For simultaneous juggling and cubing Ravi Fernando is worth watching.

#### IRNjuggle28

##### Member
Thank you! Yeah, 4 is completely different, but it's not bad. It's just juggling 2 in one hand with both hands at the same time. 5 is where it gets really, really hard. And if it came to solving cubes while juggling, the pattern for 4 might actually be better. 4 balls is more difficult, sure, but the objects always stay in the same hand. With odd number patterns, they switch hands. That might help, not sure.

#### stoic

4 is completely different, but it's not bad. It's just juggling 2 in one hand with both hands at the same time.
Really? So the balls never swap hands?
If I'd known that I might have learnt a bit sooner!

#### Renslay

##### Member
Although I am not a juggler, I'm always mesmerized by those skills and tricks. Especially when it is not just the classic cascade.

#### Tim Major

##### Platinum Member
I can solve a cube one handed whilst juggling two in the other hand sometimes (maybe 1/5 attempts no drops?)

But Ravi is ridiculous. Three cubes whilst solving all three...

##### Member
I'm trying to get into juggling and I am failing really badly. Maybe you should upload some videos about the similarity of cubing and juggling

#### Tim Major

##### Platinum Member
I'm trying to get into juggling and I am failing really badly. Maybe you should upload some videos about the similarity of cubing and juggling
Similarity number one: There is a high correlation between practise and skill.

#### TP

##### Member
Really? So the balls never swap hands?
If I'd known that I might have learnt a bit sooner!
Standard pattern is without crosses but it´s possible to do with crosses as well.

Last edited by a moderator:

#### stoic

That's really cool thanks
:tu

#### IRNjuggle28

##### Member
There are patterns that involve the balls swapping hands, but no. In the basic 4 ball pattern, the balls always stay on the same side. . 4 balls would be notated as siteswap 4. Every throw is a "4" height. Even numbers don't cross. 4 ball patterns where the balls do in fact switch sides include but are not limited to siteswaps 53, 534, 633, 7531, [4x,4x] and many others.

Yeah, go for it! If you get really obsessed with juggling, you can juggle 4 balls in a month.

#### peterbone

##### Member
Welcome to the forum. I started cubing not long after I began juggling, about 20 years ago. However, it's only within the last few years that I started speed cubing. I initially was interested in working out how to solve the cube myself and managed to solve up to a simulated 20x20 with my own method and also the megaminx/gigaminx. I now solve using CFCE because it is the most similar to the method that I originally made up. My times are in my signature. Juggling wise I tend to specialise in numbers and balancing at the moment. I'm currently working a lot on 5 club backcrosses on double spins, 7 clubs and juggling 3 clubs while balancing 2 poles on my head.

I think the main similarity between juggling and cubing is that you can do them on your own and you're basically competing against yourself. I also do bouldering (climbing), which also shares these qualities.

Your cubing progress is way faster than mine!

Last edited:

#### Gaétan Guimond

##### Member
At first I thought I was alone

I rarely come on the forum and I see your post

Cuber & juggler I like it

Last edited by a moderator:

##### Member
Greetings. I hope you enjoy it here.

#### IRNjuggle28

##### Member
It took me a while to get over the fact that Peter Bone himself replied to my thread. Oh my gosh... Well, I'm very impressed that you solved a cube yourself! Not many can. I didn't. I got the first two layers myself, and didn't work too hard on the third one, simply because I was more interested in being fast than in solving it myself. (Probably the reason that I got reasonably fast pretty quick. I was never anything but a speedcuber. Even back when I was just solving the first two layers over and over using my self-devised version of the beginners method, I timed myself.) More than a 3x3 without help, though... wow. Did your engineering/programming background help?

The double pole balance is incredible. I was very impressed by the club with a feather on top in your "Best Bits" video, but two separate balances really is unfathomable to me. Has the 3 ball balance gone anywhere?

#### IRNjuggle28

##### Member
I'm not set up to make videos anymore; I haven't done anything like that for a while. I'll make a list of similarities, though.

One of the most important similarities is that both speedsolving and juggling have a great emphasis on lookahead. The lookahead is obviously executed in very different ways, but is crucial to both. Jugglers do not look at their hands when juggling. They look at the very top of their pattern. When the object is 10 or more feet in the air, you predict (subconsciously, and in a split second) where the object will be once it reaches your hands, and position your hands accordingly. When you've juggled a lot for a long time like I have, this all becomes second nature, but that's basically what it is. It's lookahead, of a sort. You plan several sets of throws/catches ahead.

A very obvious one is the importance of finger dexterity. A tiny bit too much or too little force can make a huge difference. Coordination, both hand/eye as well as simply having nimble fingers, is a must.

Fast recognition is really important for both, as well. That's pretty self explanatory, so I won't elaborate on that one. I'm not exactly sure what all of the similarities are! There are more, and I'll post them as I think of them. It's not so much that they're very similar physically, or in their execution, but they seem to involve similar thought processes. I thought this even before learning how many people are both cubers and jugglers.

#### peterbone

##### Member
When I worked out the cube myself I was around 13 years old. This was long before I learnt to program or studied engineering. I had already started juggling though and I think it gave me the attitude that if I tried something for long enough, I would eventually be able to do it.
I still work on the triple stack balance. My best filmed run is now 20 seconds. I have done around 25 seconds. I've started trying it in my left hand, but getting nowhere.
Here's my progress, with videos.
http://www.jugglingedge.com/records.php?UserID=54&Trick=T3&

#### Dene

I can solve a cube one handed whilst juggling two in the other hand sometimes (maybe 1/5 attempts no drops?)

But Ravi is ridiculous. Three cubes whilst solving all three...
Watching him juggle at WCs was insane. That was an experience I'm glad I had :tu

Also Guimond <3