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H3 Method Development

Do you want an expanded Speed-Heise document?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8

Silky

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
430
Hi all! I've been thinking about the Snyder method for the last few day as it was recently suggested in my Quantitative Method Analysis Survey ( which I recommend you take ). anyway, I've become interested in revisiting this rather obscure method and its relatives. I've grouped all the method under the name Heise 3rd Step Methods ( H3 ). The most notable derivatives are Snyder, SIMPLE, Speed-Heise, Speed-Hesie 2, CR, and CR+. The goal of this thread is (1) to organize all of the algorithms for these methods in an accessible document ( The Snyder Method has been extremely inaccessible due to, in my understanding, Snyder never releasing his algs ) and (2) develop the methods further. For now I'd mainly focus on regenning all of the relevant algs and organizing them in one place. Tell me what ya'll think. All engagement is greatly appreciated.

Cheers !
 
Last edited:

Silky

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
430
So, a quick update. After a bit of thinking I believe I've come up with a simple LL alternative ( pun intended ).

The approach function as follows:
(1) While inserting the last F2L pair (completing a EO + F2L state ) you simultaneously solve a pair in U.
(2) You situate the U pair into the UF positions
(a) recognize the EPLL case
(b) recognize the L3C case
(3) Exicute EPLL followed immediately by L3C
*EPLL/L3C recognition and execution could be done in any order

The main benefit of this approach would be to create a low alg count 1 look last layer. In total it would only require 29 algs. A bonus is that L3C and EPLL are already well speed-optimized algs. The only major road block here is 2c2e parity.
Essentially during EPLL recognition you will have 5 cases ( + EP skip )
(1) Ua
(2) Ub
(3) Adj L
(4) Adj R
(5) Opp
Ua and Ub function normally without any problems. Ua and Ub don't effect Corner Permutation so you'd execute algs back to back. For case 3-5 you cannot solve EPLL without disturbing the corners. The solution? Use Ja Jb and F perm. This would solve edges and swap UBR and UBL corners. This would mean that the L3C case would be 100% predictable. J and F perms aren't very move efficient so coming up with 3 algs which permute the same pieces but mis-orient UBR UBL corners could be a solution. As long as the algs maintained efficiency this would remain viable.

The major problems of this approach are that (1) solving a pair in U whilst completing F2L can be both difficult and/or inefficient and (2) predicting L3C case following parity would require a bit of thinking. There are only 24 L3C cases so with practice it shouldn't be to unreasonable. However, it is still something of note.
 

Silky

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
430
Update: I just finished making a resource sheet for Snyder [SIMPLE] variant. Will work on organizing this sheet as well as completing a full Snyder sheet ( with EO last layer ). The [SIMPLE] variant has 27 algs but 82 'cases' so finishing the full EO Snyder set may take a bit. I have to optimize the algs from the dmdrlrndk's website as well. Sometime in the future I'd like to adapt the algs for Line and L cases but I think after making the current resource sheet I'll focus on making a algs sheet for Speed-Heise.
 
Last edited:

Silky

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
430
I want to make another small update on my plans for the algsheet and also go over how the sheet will be organized. To start we'll go over the [SIMPLE] variant as this is what I am currently working on.

[SIMPLE]:

To start we're going to go over the philosophy of Matt Dipalma's work. The main difference between [SIMPLE] and Snyder is that, in Snyder, there are 35 cases as well as 35 algs while in [SIMPLE], there are, again, 35 cases but only 27 agls. How does this work? Put [SIMPLY], because each alg effects multiple corners, with proper knowledge of each alg, the 27 algs cover all 35 cases. An example below:

Scramble: F2 R2 F L2 F' R2 F L' F R' F' L' F R

Snyder Solution: U2 F R' F' r U R U' r'
[SIMPLE] Solution: R' U L U' R U L'

In the Snyder solution the alg we use solves the corner placed in UFR. All Snyder cases follow this theme, each cases solves the edges and the corner placed in UFR. But in [SIMPLE], because we know how Nikolas effects all corners, we're able to solve the corner in UBR, thus saving 2 moves. With proper knowledge this can also be used to force better L3C cases. If we follow the same idea and expand the algset to cover solving any of the 4 corners the case count would increase ( in standard Snyder ) to 140.

Henceforth, in my [SIMPLE] document I will be including all 140 cases while providing the minimal number of algs that cover all cases, thus significantly decreasing the alg count. As noted above, [SIMPLE]'s 27 algs actually cover 82 cases. Unfortunately, if this same approach was applied to Line and L cases in Snyder the case count would increase to 620 ( 480 additional cases ).

This is obviously unmanageable. Therefore, in the Snyder document I will only be providing the standard Line and L cases which solve UFR. This said, later-on, when I develop the Speed-Heise document, I may or may not provide all cases, as in [SIMPLE]. Please let me know if ya'll are interested in this as there are only 288 cases which feels a bit more reasonable. If there is no interest then I'll save that project for a rainy day.

Cheers!
 

abunickabhi

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Jan 9, 2014
Messages
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Hi all! I've been thinking about the Snyder method for the last few day as it was recently suggested in my Quantitative Method Analysis Survey ( which I recommend you take ). anyway, I've become interested in revisiting this rather obscure method and its relatives. I've grouped all the method under the name Heise 3rd Step Methods ( H3 ). The most notable derivatives are Snyder, SIMPLE, Speed-Heise, Speed-Hesie 2, CR, and CR+. The goal of this thread is (1) to organize all of the algorithms for these methods in an accessible document ( The Snyder Method has been extremely inaccessible due to, in my understanding, Snyder never releasing his algs ) and (2) develop the methods further. For now I'd mainly focus on regenning all of the relevant algs and organizing them in one place. Tell me what ya'll think. All engagement is greatly appreciated.

Cheers !
I am hearing about Snyder method after a long time.

Speed Heise sounds good. I would love to have an expanded Speed Heise document.
 
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