# [Help Thread]F2L Discussion and Help

#### HD Truong Giang

##### Member
I learn algorithms pretty fast, 10 minutes per algorithm.

#### Waffles

##### Member
I learn algorithms pretty fast, 10 minutes per algorithm.
So to learn full ZBLL you would need 8 hours in theory.

#### Cuberinacuber

##### Member
This is my first post so I apologise if I make any mistakes. I use Layer-by-layer method to solve the cube and I am looking for a speedsolving method. I decided to try F2L as an intro to CFOP and so I used this intuitive F2L flowchart by BrodytheCuber (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nMrM5F8cfpnnWetO57aQ46r5tWJG5pte/view). I find it takes between 1 min and 1 min 30 seconds for me to complete. What should I do from here? Should I work on colour neutrality (I am CN but for F2L practice I stick with white cross) or speed? I would appreciate any resources recommended.

#### BenChristman1

##### Member
I’d recommend doing CN as soon as possible, because it becomes much more difficult later. If that’s too daunting, you could try becoming dual CN (solving only 2 cross colors), which is what I am. Speed will come with practice. Even while you’re practicing color neutrality, you will gradually be getting faster.

LBr

#### MJbaka

##### Member
Once you have a basic idea of how intuitive F2l works, the best thing you can to get better at it is to drill your F2L until you instantly know what to do with a pair when you see. Once you have a thorough understanding of intuitive F2L, try experimenting with certain cases to see if you can find a better way to do them

#### Megaminx lover

##### Member
Watch j Perms video for intuitive F2L

#### CubeRed

##### Member
Watch j Perms video for intuitive F2L
Well, I actually learnt F2L with a mixture of videos including Jperm and Brody. Jperms video might be better in the longer run but brody's was easier to understand. Try out both.

#### Beginner cuber

##### Member
Can anyone recommend me a REAL f2l tutorial

#### White KB

Can anyone recommend me a REAL f2l tutorial
A plethora (TM) of F2L tutorials from BrodytheCuber (USA) (27)
A second plethora (TM) of F2L tutorials from J Perm (Canada) (35)
A third plethora (TM) of F2L tutorials from Feliks Zemdegs himself (Australia) (6)
A fourth plethora (TM) of F2L tutorials, also from Feliks Zemdegs himself (Australia) (16)
A fifth plethora (TM) of F2L tutorials, which just so happens to also be from Feliks Zemdegs himself (Australia) (12)

Hopefully, at least one of those 98 tutorials should work. If you have watched every video all the way through and have found nothing helpful, then please let me know.

##### Member
Is there a better way to solve this F2l case in the BR slot (Inverse R' U R d' R U' R' U y')? I usually use U2 (f R f') U' (R' U R).

Last edited:

#### Cubing Forever

##### Member
Is there a better way to solve this F2l case in the BR slot (Inverse R' U R d' R U' R' U y')? I usually use U2 (f R f') U' (R' U R).
d' R' F R F' R U' R' or if you like fancy stuff, U R f' U' f R' U R

##### Member
d' R' F R F' R U' R' or if you like fancy stuff, U R f' U' f R' U R
R' U R d' R U' R' U y' doesn't give you that case?

##### Member
Say your last F2L pair is in the FL slot and can easily be solved there, is it wise to rotate so it's now the FR slot for better edge control?

#### White KB

Say your last F2L pair is in the FL slot and can easily be solved there, is it wise to rotate so it's now the FR slot for better edge control?
Good question!
My answer is no, not generally. Usually, the best idea is to do a mirrored alg with your left hand or to use a unique algorithm to solve it into the left slot. If the algorithm is awkward and is going to take longer than it takes to rotate and right-hand it, then rotating would be a good idea in that case. In the long-term, however, it's a good idea to practice lefty algs so you can improve at them.
I hope that answers your question. If it doesn't, try looking at the Speedsolving.com Wiki.

##### Member
Good question!
My answer is no, not generally. Usually, the best idea is to do a mirrored alg with your left hand or to use a unique algorithm to solve it into the left slot. If the algorithm is awkward and is going to take longer than it takes to rotate and right-hand it, then rotating would be a good idea in that case. In the long-term, however, it's a good idea to practice lefty algs so you can improve at them.
I hope that answers your question. If it doesn't, try looking at the Speedsolving.com Wiki.
That's good enough for me, thanks.

#### Cozy

##### Member
I've started to get more and more sub 15 averages, but its getting really hard to improve further. After looking into how long I take for each step of the solve I found my F2L taking the longest (which makes sense don't get me wrong), but I still can't help but think that this is something I can improve a lot. My time distribution usually looks something like this:
- Cross ~3 seconds​
- F2L ~8 seconds​
- OLL 2-4 seconds (depending on if I know the case or if I do it 2 Look)​
- PLL 1-2 seconds​
Is there a website to train this on? Is there a specific type of training I can do? Just more efficient / different F2L algs? With this thread I hope people can share similar experiences and tips on how to improve lookahead or F2L in general.

#### zzoomer

##### Member
I've started to get more and more sub 15 averages, but its getting really hard to improve further. After looking into how long I take for each step of the solve I found my F2L taking the longest (which makes sense don't get me wrong), but I still can't help but think that this is something I can improve a lot. My time distribution usually looks something like this:
- Cross ~3 seconds​
- F2L ~8 seconds​
- OLL 2-4 seconds (depending on if I know the case or if I do it 2 Look)​
- PLL 1-2 seconds​
Is there a website to train this on? Is there a specific type of training I can do? Just more efficient / different F2L algs? With this thread I hope people can share similar experiences and tips on how to improve lookahead or F2L in general.
You should work on cross (3s is quite slow) and finishing full OLL. Your F2L is pretty decent.

#### yCArp

##### Member
Intuitive F2L vs Algorithmic F2L

Apart from the ease of learning for intuitive F2L which I highly respect, what is the real advantage of intuitive f2l over algorithmic f2l in the aspect of solving?
1. I learn algorithms pretty fast as well, so there is no difference for me in terms of the ease of learning
2. When I learn an alg, I naturally see the pattern to how the other pieces are affected in terms of their permutation (not orientation yet) over time
3. I want to be sub-7, and my lookahead is consistent, hence, doesnt that mean if I learn algorithmic F2L, I wont have to spend time coming up with the F2L solution using intuitive f2l when I can use my muscle memory to execute the solution that I alreay know before hand, saving a couple of milliseconds that will make a vast difference at this point?
4. I also aim to inspect till cross + 2, which I heard is possible. My understaing is with algorithmic f2l, once you recognise the case you get for the 1st pair, you will see the solution in your head immediately and can possibly go ahead to plan you seconds pair. I can currently inspect cross + 1 with ease using J Perm's method of tracing. Additionally, the solution you have with algorithms can be lower in movecount that using intutive f2l (for some cases only) so you can trace less

I am more interested in the answer for the bolded question, and as for the 4 points below it, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.