# Curvy Copter T4T algorithms(move optimal!)

## Would you support Curvy Copter as an official WCA event?

• ### After better hardware/solve method exists

• Total voters
20

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
This is an easy algorthm set used to solve the top 4 triangle pieces (T4T) of the curvy copter when solving the last layer. They can only work on jumble-move-free curvy copters.

#Note that I didn't consider its effect on the small edge centers becuase of the inevitable edge-center flip case, which cannot be elimanted even if you put all the traingle pieces into their correct orbit at the start of the solve, so it's better to just deal with that before L4C.

L4C(last 4 corners) algorithm set: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/curvy-copter-2-look-l4c-algorithms-move-optimal.74991/

A good fingertrick I found is use your left hand to move L and flick(pushing) B with your right index finger from home grip, need some practice to get fast at, but it's quite good. Because an alg with good fingertricks has more advantage on CC than an easy recognizable one, so I try to make the longer algs have as much L and B moves as possible, which may not be on the easiest angle to recognize(sorry).

Please tell me if I miss any case or I can improve on the algs!

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#### One Wheel

##### Member
I appreciate your work, but I’m not sure just how useful this particular effort is. IMO fixing jumbling/orbits at the beginning of the solve is probably a bit more difficult than fixing EO at the beginning of a 3x3 solve: a viable method, but not necessarily the best and I usually mess it up. Furthermore, what’s important at this step is getting the triangles adjoining the top layer in the correct spot. If all of those are solved then the LL centers will be solved by default. Just solving the LL centers does not mean that the other centers will be solved.

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
I appreciate your work, but I’m not sure just how useful this particular effort is. IMO fixing jumbling/orbits at the beginning of the solve is probably a bit more difficult than fixing EO at the beginning of a 3x3 solve: a viable method, but not necessarily the best and I usually mess it up.
Yes, I know and it is also really hard for me to fix orbit at the beginning of the solve, but in my own case, I would spend a couple minutes during every step fixing the wrong orbits along the way.

I found I just need 2 minutes or so to correct all orbits at first, but it will take me 5 minutes or so to fix orbits during trio pairing and LL, so I better of just spend 2 minutes to save 5 minutes.

With everyone currently solving the CC in measurement of minutes(anyone faster than a min?) I think it’s the way to go, for now, unless someone/some fact prove otherwise.

And also,algs of these steps on jumbled CC will be well above the hundreds, which is almost impossible to learn and use. I want to at least make some progresses to help the community and make CC more feasible to beginners(who probably won’t jumble the cube) by making detailed,complete alg sets like L4C and this to make more people like CC.

#### One Wheel

##### Member
Yes, I know and it is also really hard for me to fix orbit at the beginning of the solve, but in my own case, I would spend a couple minutes during every step fixing the wrong orbits along the way.

I found I just need 2 minutes or so to correct all orbits at first, but it will take me 5 minutes or so to fix orbits during trio pairing and LL, so I better of just spend 2 minutes to save 5 minutes.

With everyone currently solving the CC in measurement of minutes(anyone faster than a min?) I think it’s the way to go, for now, unless someone/some fact prove otherwise.

And also,algs of these steps on jumbled CC will be well above the hundreds, which is almost impossible to learn and use. I want to at least make some progresses to help the community and make CC more feasible to beginners(who probably won’t jumble the cube) by making detailed,complete alg sets like L4C and this to make more people like CC.
Don’t take this wrong: I’m really glad you’re generating algs for Curvy Copter. My point is that I’m not sure that the way you’ve done these L4Ce algs is very useful. Take the following sequence of moves around the U layer: RFLRFLRFRLBLBFLRBRFL. It results in a position that according to your alg sheet can be solved with LFBRB. The top layer pieces are indeed solved by that, but the pieces in the adjacent layer are not. Instead after the scramble you need to do something like RBLBLBRFRFRF.

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
Don’t take this wrong: I’m really glad you’re generating algs for Curvy Copter. My point is that I’m not sure that the way you’ve done these L4Ce algs is very useful. Take the following sequence of moves around the U layer: RFLRFLRFRLBLBFLRBRFL. It results in a position that according to your alg sheet can be solved with LFBRB. The top layer pieces are indeed solved by that, but the pieces in the adjacent layer are not. Instead after the scramble you need to do something like RBLBLBRFRFRF.
If I understand your concept right, yes, that way will be much more efficient, but the total alg count will be much higher. I'm not sure if you just want the side triangles(adjacent layer triangles) to be solved simultaneously or you even also want the small edge centers to be solved since your RBLBLBRFRFRF does both of that. In both cases:

Top triangle solved + side triangle solved: 24 x side triangles alg count(3?) = 72 algs
Top triangle solved + side triangle solved + edge centers solved = 24 x 3(?) x15(2^4-1) = 1080 algs

where the first one is hard and the latter one just not practical, do you mean that? I am not sure......

By the way, your case can be done as follows, not one-alg-done but rather step by step, although quite slow:

RFLRFLRFRLBLBFLRBRFL (LL scramble)
-->LFBRB (T4T)
-->LRFLR (Side traingles)
-->(LRFB)x3 (edge centers)
-->last 4 corners.............

#### One Wheel

##### Member
My solution to that case was intuitive, which I believe to be the best strategy for that particular phase of the solve. I solved the back two triangles, and saw a couple of extra moves that I could make to ensure that edge was oriented, and since the puzzle was scrambled without jumbling I could have ended up with either two edges or four oriented as I solved the right triangles, and then the front and left triangles together.

The alg sets for OL4C and PL4C are good, I’ve only learned a couple and learning the rest is on my list of things to do. Other alg sets that I could imagine would be useful:
- OL4E (only 5 cases)
- COLL
- Full OLL, including EO

Of course the other option would be to go with your plan of solving the LL triangles, and then having another alg set to permute the second-layer triangles. Or is that what you’ve been getting at, and I just wasn’t understanding?

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
- OL4E (only 5 cases)
- Full OLL, including EO
I guess the 5 case included the jumble edge flip cases and the same for Full OLL. So there will be jumble moves in these algs?

#### One Wheel

##### Member
But how about the edge flipping case? Then there will be more than 5 cases.
Orienting just the edges the five cases are:

- 1 edge flipped
- 2 edges flipped, L-shape
- 2 edges flipped, I-shape
- 3 edges flipped
- 4 edges flipped.

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
Orienting just the edges the five cases are:

- 1 edge flipped
- 2 edges flipped, L-shape
- 2 edges flipped, I-shape
- 3 edges flipped
- 4 edges flipped.
Sorry, I just figured that out. How about the jumble-edge-flip cases? Do they have to be considered or they can be ignored in this step?

#### One Wheel

##### Member
Sorry, I just figured that out. How about the jumble-edge-flip cases? Do they have to be considered or they can be ignored in this step?
The jumble-edge-flip cases are, if I’m not mistaken, the 1- and 3-edge cases.

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
The jumble-edge-flip cases are, if I’m not mistaken, the 1- and 3-edge cases.
Ok. So I think an EASY VERSION OF last layer steps can go like:

T4T(24 algs)

->OL4E(5 algs)

->Side triangles(4? algs)

->COLL or 2-look L4C

->Cube solved.

Full OLL(T4T+edges) or edge+side triangles both have a alg count over 70 which is even higher than COLL, yes, I know a lot of cases can be solved intuitively, but I just want things to be algorithmized so they are of less prioirity(to me).

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#### ichcubegerne

##### Member
What I would really like to see is a alg sheet for when the only triangles left are the ones on the UFR faces.
MEaning that U, FU, RU faceparts are unsolved at that point.

(With no regards to corners)

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
What I would really like to see is a alg sheet for when the only triangles left are the ones on the UFR faces.
MEaning that U, FU, RU faceparts are unsolved at that point.

(With no regards to corners)
What’s that for?

#### ichcubegerne

##### Member
I mean especially for a jumbled cube obvsly

#### Mike Hughey

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
What’s that for?
For a method such as RedKB's, which is the one I was essentially using for a couple of weeks before I started putting all the triangles in their proper orbit first (which is what I do now), the set of algs ichcubegerne is asking for would be particularly useful. If I had those, and thought I had them memorized, I would probably consider going back to RedKB's method.

#### ichcubegerne

##### Member
For a method such as RedKB's, which is the one I was essentially using for a couple of weeks before I started putting all the triangles in their proper orbit first (which is what I do now), the set of algs ichcubegerne is asking for would be particularly useful. If I had those, and thought I had them memorized, I would probably consider going back to RedKB's method.
Yeah, it would be (if I caculated right) 420 cases tho. So it would probably be most useful to generate the set where RU is also solved^^ Then it should be 6*5/2=15 cases, which seems reasonable

Then we need a proper notation for jumbling moves tho^^ That would also decrease the scramble length drastically in the ss comp

#### Mike Hughey

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, it would be (if I caculated right) 420 cases tho. So it would probably be most useful to generate the set where RU is also solved^^ Then it should be 6*5/2=15 cases, which seems reasonable

Then we need a proper notation for jumbling moves tho^^ That would also decrease the scramble length drastically in the ss comp
Wow, didn't realize it would be anywhere near that many. Yeah, I guess that's not that practical. And isn't that 15 including the solved case, so really 14 (slightly more practical still)?

And yeah, I get it on the jumbling moves. I'm working hard on the integration of the competition with the forum; alternate notations for the scrambles will be next, but it may take some patience still - it won't be real soon...

#### Wish Lin

##### Member
What I would really like to see is a alg sheet for when the only triangles left are the ones on the UFR faces.
MEaning that U, FU, RU faceparts are unsolved at that point.

(With no regards to corners)
Which pieces do you mean? I am not sure.