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Cubing in Colorado

weatherman223

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
435
Location
Colorado Springs
WCA
2017MILL04
I may be able to go, but my dreams would become true if I could find a way to carpool, which probably won’t happen unless someone magically has room in a car. Flying appears to be too expensive at the moment, and I’ll have to wait to make my final decision until closer to a registration closure.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Messages
1,073
Location
Utah
WCA
2016BAIR01
i will probably go are their qualificaton times
There are no qualification times, just the cutoffs and time limits which can be found on the competition website :)

I may be able to go, but my dreams would become true if I could find a way to carpool, which probably won’t happen unless someone magically has room in a car. Flying appears to be too expensive at the moment, and I’ll have to wait to make my final decision until closer to a registration closure.
I think I might try and setup something so that people can find others to carpool with, we will see if I can actually set anything up though
 

KingCanyon

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
89
Location
Colorado
WCA
2015KIND01
Well, I may be back from the east coast a bit earlier than expected, so there is a slight chance that I could go. However, about everything would have to work out right. Also, my 17th Birthday happens on the first day of the competition, so that’s cool I guess.
 

cubeshepherd

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
2,037
WCA
2016STEE01
For a venue, I was thinking about the Ute Pass Cultural Center in Woodland Park. It has a stage and enough room for competitors. The commercial price per hour is $133, while the non-profit price per hour is $75. I don't know if the competition would be considered non-profit. I would assume so because the WCA is a non-profit organization. To pay for the venue, do we use competitor fees? Also, I think getting a sponsor might be a good idea (The Cubicle or Speedsolving.com are examples). I will leave the link to the venue's website down below. Let me know what you think of it and what other expenses we might need. I also understand that we should get a WCA delegate to make this work.


http://www.utepassculturalcenter.itgo.com
My apologies @KingCanyon for the late reply. I was just going through everything and realized that your question got missed by me.

With respect to the venue, I think it could possibly work, but my only concern with a venue that size is that you would only be able to have at max 60-65 competitor limit (maybe less depending on how many solving tables/stations you have), especially since you have to take into account:
1. Each competitor bringing 1-2 people (that can vary by person of course).
2. For the solving tables you need to make sure that there is at least a 1.5 meter gap from the table to the audience, as well as making sure there is enough space between each table for competitors to go to and from the waiting area to the solving table with out bumping a table that someone is solving at.
3. You will need a way to have the scrambling table away from anywhere where/near the waiting area, and if the WCA enforces complete scramble secrecy (which if I remember correctly they will in 2020, although I can't find the link where I found that being talked about), but if they do then you will need a place to have the scrambling table covered from all eyesight, which for a venue that is smaller will be harder to do.
4. Again that venue can work, but based off of venues that I have looked at in the past (at around the same sizing) they tend to not work great size wise for competitions, due to the way that a competition is set up and run, but if you have a lower competitor limit, 6-8 solving stations, and a schedule that works then a competition should be viable there.

With regards to the costs for the venue, you can get the non-profit cost ($75/Per hour) since like you said the WCA is a non-profit organization (see here) and all the proceeds go to future competition/furthering the WCA and cubing. But with that if you do the math, you will need the venue for about 10-12 hours, and $75x10 is putting you at $750 and if you have a 55 competitor limit with registration fees being $20 then you will be at $1,100, which by no means a bad thing, but just something to keep in mind. Additionally, for costs of venues you can always see if past competitions have the funds to help with your competition (and that is how it should be), so if needed we can help, but if you can get the venue fees coverd as much as possible from registration fees then that is always best, but again not needed for all comps.

If you can get a sponsor for the comp, for the podium placers then that is the best option (and it is really easy to get), since TheCubical and SCS are always willing to sponsor competitions, so that is a minor point.

Lastly, regarding the venue cost/costs in general, currently we don't have a local delegate that we can use (and not sure when we will get one) so you will have to consider having a delegate fly out which will require you needing to pay for there airfare/travel cost, and that can be anywhere from $300-$600 or more, depending on a lot of different cases.
 

KingCanyon

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
89
Location
Colorado
WCA
2015KIND01
My apologies @KingCanyon for the late reply. I was just going through everything and realized that your question got missed by me.

With respect to the venue, I think it could possibly work, but my only concern with a venue that size is that you would only be able to have at max 60-65 competitor limit (maybe less depending on how many solving tables/stations you have), especially since you have to take into account:
1. Each competitor bringing 1-2 people (that can vary by person of course).
2. For the solving tables you need to make sure that there is at least a 1.5 meter gap from the table to the audience, as well as making sure there is enough space between each table for competitors to go to and from the waiting area to the solving table with out bumping a table that someone is solving at.
3. You will need a way to have the scrambling table away from anywhere where/near the waiting area, and if the WCA enforces complete scramble secrecy (which if I remember correctly they will in 2020, although I can't find the link where I found that being talked about), but if they do then you will need a place to have the scrambling table covered from all eyesight, which for a venue that is smaller will be harder to do.
4. Again that venue can work, but based off of venues that I have looked at in the past (at around the same sizing) they tend to not work great size wise for competitions, due to the way that a competition is set up and run, but if you have a lower competitor limit, 6-8 solving stations, and a schedule that works then a competition should be viable there.

With regards to the costs for the venue, you can get the non-profit cost ($75/Per hour) since like you said the WCA is a non-profit organization (see here) and all the proceeds go to future competition/furthering the WCA and cubing. But with that if you do the math, you will need the venue for about 10-12 hours, and $75x10 is putting you at $750 and if you have a 55 competitor limit with registration fees being $20 then you will be at $1,100, which by no means a bad thing, but just something to keep in mind. Additionally, for costs of venues you can always see if past competitions have the funds to help with your competition (and that is how it should be), so if needed we can help, but if you can get the venue fees coverd as much as possible from registration fees then that is always best, but again not needed for all comps.

If you can get a sponsor for the comp, for the podium placers then that is the best option (and it is really easy to get), since TheCubical and SCS are always willing to sponsor competitions, so that is a minor point.

Lastly, regarding the venue cost/costs in general, currently we don't have a local delegate that we can use (and not sure when we will get one) so you will have to consider having a delegate fly out which will require you needing to pay for there airfare/travel cost, and that can be anywhere from $300-$600 or more, depending on a lot of different cases.
If that particular venue isn’t the best, I could potentially have other options. My dad works at an elementary school called Summit in Divide. (15 minutes from Woodland Park) and I’m sure I could work something out where I could get the venue for free. A problem with this venue could be its relative remoteness from Colorado Springs (45 minute drive). I also don’t know if the venue is large enough. There is a gymnasium and a cafeteria that are connected by a stage curtain. I would send you pictures, but I can’t seem to find them online. If I lived in the Springs, I would probably look for one there, but I know that I could probably get a better deal with pricing in Divide with my dad being a teacher.
 

cubeshepherd

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Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
2,037
WCA
2016STEE01
If that particular venue isn’t the best, I could potentially have other options. My dad works at an elementary school called Summit in Divide. (15 minutes from Woodland Park) and I’m sure I could work something out where I could get the venue for free. A problem with this venue could be its relative remoteness from Colorado Springs (45 minute drive). I also don’t know if the venue is large enough. There is a gymnasium and a cafeteria that are connected by a stage curtain. I would send you pictures, but I can’t seem to find them online. If I lived in the Springs, I would probably look for one there, but I know that I could probably get a better deal with pricing in Divide with my dad being a teacher.
So I wouldn't say it is not a option, and it can work (especially if we ever have a local delegate), but with the way things are right now I don't think the venue for the cost (venue and delegate cost make to much sense) although we can make something work.

The other thing you can do if you want (and I will as well) is see if there are any venues on the west side of the Springs (like near Manitou) that are big enough, and have a decent price.

Your school (and like you said) may not be the best option, due to where it is located. Is there any chance that your father or you can get a school closer to the Springs? I am not certain if since your father works at a school, he could contact another one and get a place for cheap, but that might be something to check on.

Again, the venue you found could/can work for competitions, just for the cost of that and a delegate, it probably is not the best option, if that makes sense.
 

weatherman223

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
435
Location
Colorado Springs
WCA
2017MILL04
Going to agree with Tristan here. The venue would work normally, but due to its location, getting a delegate would be rather hard, as they would have to fly into COS. Venue cost will most likely easily exceed $750. However, if it is there, 50-60 people would easily go.

Try contacting other venues in your area, such as the schools in Woodland Park RE-2. If you're a student at a school you go to, you may be able to get a large enough room for free.
 

KingCanyon

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
89
Location
Colorado
WCA
2015KIND01
Going to agree with Tristan here. The venue would work normally, but due to its location, getting a delegate would be rather hard, as they would have to fly into COS. Venue cost will most likely easily exceed $750. However, if it is there, 50-60 people would easily go.

Try contacting other venues in your area, such as the schools in Woodland Park RE-2. If you're a student at a school you go to, you may be able to get a large enough room for free.
Summit is in Woodland Park School District, but I see your point. I was thinking about contacting other schools, such as the middle school here in Woodland Park, as they have a considerably large cafeteria, and a stage that could be used for scrambling. I presume that the place could have 60-70 competitors. If that doesn’t work, then I may have to look in Manitou Springs/western Colorado Springs.
 

cubeshepherd

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Feb 18, 2018
Messages
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2016STEE01
Summit is in Woodland Park School District, but I see your point. I was thinking about contacting other schools, such as the middle school here in Woodland Park, as they have a considerably large cafeteria, and a stage that could be used for scrambling. I presume that the place could have 60-70 competitors. If that doesn’t work, then I may have to look in Manitou Springs/western Colorado Springs.
That sounds great and thank you very much for helping with this, and trying to find a venue. We do sincerely appreciate your willingness in trying to organize a competition. Please keep us posted on what you come up with, and if you have any questions about anything.
 

cubeshepherd

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Feb 18, 2018
Messages
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2016STEE01
I apologies for a double post, but for anyone that will be going to Western Champs in Utah in 2020, there are some individuals that are/might be interested in carpooling, so if you like that option or are interested in Carpooling someone please post that here, DM's or via email to me and once I can find out who is and who is not interested I will let the other party know.

Additionally, if you are planning on flying, the only airport that you can fly into is in SLC, so you will need to most likely rent a car, unless you know someone local that can pick you up. @Underwatercuber mentioned that there is also a lot of public transportation between SLC and Provo so that might be a option as well, but I don't know much on that yet but will look into it and past something here accordingly.

FOR COLORADO COMP NEWS:
The "Colorado Springs Winter 2020" is officially announced and on the WCA website: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/competitions/ColoradoSpringsWinter2020

Registration opens on Thursday, December 5th, so please be sure to register early to guarantee a spot.
 

PingPongCuber

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
162
Location
Colorado
WCA
2018AMSB02
I registered for Western Championships! Really excited to do 16 events (all but 5BLD), and the time limits and cutoffs are great. Super excited for that! I also will be attending Colorado Springs Winter and will be doing all events. I would like to get a sub-30 OH single (meet the cutoff), get a 17 second 3x3 average, and get a sub-1:00 4x4 single.
 

KingCanyon

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
89
Location
Colorado
WCA
2015KIND01
Well, I would say that the chances of me going to the Western Championships are now about 50%. My parents said that if I do this month long summer program in Denver, then I may be able to go. I still don’t know yet, but I might want to carpool or I may fly in.

Also, why do only the top 12 of each event go to finals at Colorado Springs Winter? I thought it was 16. In addition, why are the cutoffs decently hard? It is because there is a large competitor limit? I may have to seriously practice 5x5 and 6x6 to make those cutoffs. I’ll probably get some new cubes from the cubicle or SCS.
 

cubeshepherd

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
2,037
WCA
2016STEE01
Well, I would say that the chances of me going to the Western Championships are now about 50%. My parents said that if I do this month long summer program in Denver, then I may be able to go. I still don’t know yet, but I might want to carpool or I may fly in.

Also, why do only the top 12 of each event go to finals at Colorado Springs Winter? I thought it was 16. In addition, why are the cutoffs decently hard? It is because there is a large competitor limit? I may have to seriously practice 5x5 and 6x6 to make those cutoffs. I’ll probably get some new cubes from the cubicle or SCS.
12 is probably because finals had too many people to get through at vdo also time restraints are because it would be more ideal to get through events faster also big cubes are notorious for slowing down competetions and gettting them behind(these are all assumptions please correct me if i am wrong)
Your pretty much spot on @oliver sitja sichel. After VDO and talking to Calvin, (and something I have been thinking about from other comps), is that it makes more sense to have 12 people in finals then 16, and the main reasons for that it, 1. It won't take as long. and 2. Most of the time the top 16 are the fast scramblers and if you only have 12 then you will have at least one more scrambler, and that will help speed up final rounds.

I am not opposed to comps with top 16 making finals (and that is something that we have been doing at previous comps), but we wanted to see how this goes, and if we like it (which I already to) then we might be doing it more often.

With respect to the cutoff times...well that is something that we are thinking will be something we will be doing more often at comps (having lower cutoff times that is). Reason 1 for that, is it helps get people to practice the event and get faster rather then be sub x and say "Well since I am already sub x, I don't need to practice that event as much", so by having people practice that event it will make it more competitive. Reason 2. By so doing it you can have more event, or more rounds of events, since the slow people will tend to get 1 solve for 6x6, and 7x7, and 2 solves for 4x4, 5x5, Megaminx. With that being said I am just fine with looser cutoff times for some comps, but that is up to the organizer and delegate on what would be best. And for this competition we wanted to do something different and see how it does.

Here is the thread with discussion on cutoff times for competitions: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/what-should-be-fair-cutoffs-for-competitions.75516/
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Messages
53
Location
longmont,colorado
WCA
2019SICH01
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Your pretty much spot on @oliver sitja sichel. After VDO and talking to Calvin, (and something I have been thinking about from other comps), is that it makes more sense to have 12 people in finals then 16, and the main reasons for that it, 1. It won't take as long. and 2. Most of the time the top 16 are the fast scramblers and if you only have 12 then you will have at least one more scrambler, and that will help speed up final rounds.

I am not opposed to comps with top 16 making finals (and that is something that we have been doing at previous comps), but we wanted to see how this goes, and if we like it (which I already to) then we might be doing it more often.

With respect to the cutoff times...well that is something that we are thinking will be something we will be doing more often at comps (having lower cutoff times that is). Reason 1 for that, is it helps get people to practice the event and get faster rather then be sub x and say "Well since I am already sub x, I don't need to practice that event as much", so by having people practice that event it will make it more competitive. Reason 2. By so doing it you can have more event, or more rounds of events, since the slow people will tend to get 1 solve for 6x6, and 7x7, and 2 solves for 4x4, 5x5, Megaminx. With that being said I am just fine with looser cutoff times for some comps, but that is up to the organizer and delegate on what would be best. And for this competition we wanted to do something different and see how it does.

Here is the thread with discussion on cutoff times for competitions: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/what-should-be-fair-cutoffs-for-competitions.75516/
it is nice that the time limits are still quite achievable (i personally am fine doing only 1 or 2 solves so that i can at least get a single)oh is a perfect example its 20 wich seemed a bit unfair to me but at least i can fix my 58 in comp single
 

KingCanyon

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
89
Location
Colorado
WCA
2015KIND01
Your pretty much spot on @oliver sitja sichel. After VDO and talking to Calvin, (and something I have been thinking about from other comps), is that it makes more sense to have 12 people in finals then 16, and the main reasons for that it, 1. It won't take as long. and 2. Most of the time the top 16 are the fast scramblers and if you only have 12 then you will have at least one more scrambler, and that will help speed up final rounds.

I am not opposed to comps with top 16 making finals (and that is something that we have been doing at previous comps), but we wanted to see how this goes, and if we like it (which I already to) then we might be doing it more often.

With respect to the cutoff times...well that is something that we are thinking will be something we will be doing more often at comps (having lower cutoff times that is). Reason 1 for that, is it helps get people to practice the event and get faster rather then be sub x and say "Well since I am already sub x, I don't need to practice that event as much", so by having people practice that event it will make it more competitive. Reason 2. By so doing it you can have more event, or more rounds of events, since the slow people will tend to get 1 solve for 6x6, and 7x7, and 2 solves for 4x4, 5x5, Megaminx. With that being said I am just fine with looser cutoff times for some comps, but that is up to the organizer and delegate on what would be best. And for this competition we wanted to do something different and see how it does.

Here is the thread with discussion on cutoff times for competitions: https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/what-should-be-fair-cutoffs-for-competitions.75516/
Thanks for the reply! That does make since with the time constraints with more competitors as well as having extra scrambles for latter rounds as that was a minor issue last comp.

On another note, my dad talked to his principal in Divide about the competition and she said that we could use the venue for free. Now I know that you were leaning toward a venue in Woodland Park/Manitou Springs, but I think it may be better to have this competition in Divide because of the cost of the venue and availability. Now, I do think this may have to be a smaller competition due to the venue being a bit smaller than Discovery Canyon. I will send you pictures when I get the chance. Another issue would be the delegate. Since the competition’s venue is free, most of that would be taken care of. However, the venue is out of the way (About a half hour from Rudy’s in the Springs according to Google Maps) and this could cause issues, so we would have to find a delegate willing to go out of their way a bit to go to the venue. Again, I don’t want to confirm this, I just want your opinion on it, as you have more experience than I do. I just thought that a free venue a bit out of the way would be better than one that costs money.

EDIT: Also, do you think that this competition would be in April? I thought you said that two others will be having their comps in February and March.
 
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