#### tx789

##### Member
1. I haven't seen I clock IRL ever but I already know how to solve it.
2. It's not a twisty puzzle.
3. It's so trivial that people get 5 second averages even though the hardware is *%&&^ that the Rubik's brand is considered the best. 4. U need to be right next to the puzzle to even tell if it's solved 5. It's people spinning wheels that always look the same to alter little clocks that u either can't see because ur standing in the wrong place or the solvers thumbs are in the way or both. Since Rubik's is considered the best for it their hardware is automatically awful. For clock it is hard to see how it could be improve drastically. Magics were worse for hardware the variation you had was basically none and the strings broke all the time. Restringing was a pain. #### DGCubes ##### Member Why do people hate clock? 1. It's impossible to get a good Clock without a lot of work and/or a lot of money. 2. It's near impossible to have at competitions without issues. 2a. People misscramble. 2b. People make the Clocks fall over when lifting the cover, requiring an extra scramble. 2c. Runners actually need to be qualified, otherwise they'll push pins in accidentally. 2d. Like half of the Clocks people bring to comps aren't legal. 2e. 80% of the ones that are legal are near-impossible to turn, making the scramblers mad. 3. It's boring for spectators. 4. It really doesn't belong in the WCA, as it's nothing like any other event. If it weren't made by Rubik's, there's no way it would've been considered. It's about as similar to a Rubik's Cube as a 15 puzzle or one of these is. #### Underwatercuber ##### Member It got pretty old somewhere around 2014 and the only reason I've kept doing it is because it's the only event I'm good at. It would be interesting to see how fast I would be if I kept practicing it as much as I did other events. What's your wca profile? #### Underwatercuber ##### Member It's linked in his user information. Here it is though. still a bit new to the forums thing and I don't know how to do a lot of things. (In fact how did you do the "here it is though" link thingie) lol Nice to see 1 person who can beat me at clock sadly so few people even try that I usually am one of the faster people #### DGCubes ##### Member (In fact how did you do the "here it is though" link thingie) lol When you type something that you want to link to another page, highlight it and click the link symbol (to the right of the font symbol that looks like an A). Then enter the URL you want to link to. #### Underwatercuber ##### Member When you type something that you want to link to another page, highlight it and click the link symbol (to the right of the font symbol that looks like an A). Then enter the URL you want to link to. Thanks Let me test it here #### mark49152 ##### Super Moderator Staff member I recently bought my first clock and have disassembled it following @Kit Clement's guide on YT. At 5:48 in his "how to get fast" video, he mentions that there should be little tabs sticking up between the cogs to make the clock clicky. Mine doesn't have those. It looks like they've been neatly snapped off right at the base. The casing was intact and hard to get open, so I don't think it has been disassembled before. My question is, what can I do to make this clock good? It still clicks, as it looks like the clicking is caused by round bumps at the base of the tabs. However, when the cogs are lifted by the bumps, they raise out of the hole in the casing and I wonder if the tabs were designed to prevent the cogs from becoming misaligned. Kit mentions there were two types of clock and my guess is that the tabs may have caused catches or similar, and were snapped off during manufacturing in newer models. Any background or advice appreciated. #### Underwatercuber ##### Member I recently bought my first clock and have disassembled it following @Kit Clement's guide on YT. At 5:48 in his "how to get fast" video, he mentions that there should be little tabs sticking up between the cogs to make the clock clicky. Mine doesn't have those. It looks like they've been neatly snapped off right at the base. The casing was intact and hard to get open, so I don't think it has been disassembled before. My question is, what can I do to make this clock good? It still clicks, as it looks like the clicking is caused by round bumps at the base of the tabs. However, when the cogs are lifted by the bumps, they raise out of the hole in the casing and I wonder if the tabs were designed to prevent the cogs from becoming misaligned. Kit mentions there were two types of clock and my guess is that the tabs may have caused catches or similar, and were snapped off during manufacturing in newer models. Any background or advice appreciated. The tabs serve the same function as the bumps. Rubik's clocks have the tabs and lingao have the bumps (not sure what baitai has). Just set your clock up like Kit shows in the video and it should work great good luck with clock #### mark49152 ##### Super Moderator Staff member Thanks, my clock is now great. I don't think the tabs create the clicking. The bumps do that. I can see where the tabs were as their burrs were still sticking out of the bumps, before I sanded them down. The tabs would only have touched the end of a cog tooth at the point where the wheel is highest on the bump, which is why I think they are to keep the cog from popping out of its hole when raised. I could be wrong as I don't have one with tabs still in place to check. #### Mastermind2368 ##### Member 1. It's impossible to get a good Clock without a lot of work and/or a lot of money. I got a Rubik's brand clock of SS with only posting a thread, that's not any work and I got one for 23 dollars including shipping, making it only 13 more then the lingo of the cubicle and from something like Cubezz 15 $. 2. It's near impossible to have at competitions without issues. Most of the comps I go to, they get different staff just for clock and sometimes BLD so that solves all of those 3. It's boring for spectators. Other then FMC, it probably is the most boring event to spectate except for clock solvers, you can usually tell about how fast they are when they flip the puzzle and besides the WCA isn't some sorta "Cubers got talent." it is for the fun of you competing, not them spectating. 4. It really doesn't belong in the WCA, as it's nothing like any other event. If it weren't made by Rubik's, there's no way it would've been considered. It's about as similar to a Rubik's Cube as a 15 puzzle or one of these is. Ok in that case I would like to see where it says that the WCA only does twisty puzzles. So what if they added it because it was by Rubik's? Its a good enough puzzle and unlike Magic and Master magic, it is different every time and there is no rules saying you can't have this finger touch here and here. 2. It's not a twisty puzzle. Look above 3. It's so trivial that people get 5 second averages even though the hardware is *%$&&^ that the Rubik's brand is considered the best.
Have you seen Pyra when people mefferts and Qj and all the stuff like that? They got sub 4's and maybe sub 3's and 4 avgs. Pyra is also a Lol event
4. U need to be right next to the puzzle to even tell if it's solved
Maybe you do
5. It's people spinning wheels that always look the same to alter little clocks that u either can't see because ur standing in the wrong place or the solvers thumbs are in the way or both.
You haven't even touched a clock and are saying this?
1. I haven't seen I clock IRL ever but I already know how to solve it.
Because every solve is the same and there's no variety in methods so it gets really boring really quickly.
If you have the same pin order, then yes, but if you are like me, you don't care anything about pin order crap
Sorry to bug everyone who saw this in there alerts, just wanted to prove it is a lit event

#### DGCubes

##### Member
Very good points. Here's my take on it:

Most of the comps I go to, they get different staff just for clock and sometimes BLD so that solves all of those
Except it doesn't:
2d. Like half of the Clocks people bring to comps aren't legal.
2e. 80% of the ones that are legal are near-impossible to turn, making the scramblers mad.
There will always be competitors with borderline legal Clocks that take time out of the delegate's day to determine the legality of. The amount of times I've seen really messed up Clocks get through to the scrambling table is too many to count. So many of the legal ones are still total trash because most people don't care enough about the event to invest in a Rubik's or good LingAo.

Besides these points, I've noticed that at all the comps I've been to with Clock, there's a sort of Clock black market whenever the event rolls around. Everyone is trying to use someone else's Clock since nobody has a legal one, and this is ridiculous since many people are trying to compete at the same time. I don't think it can be denied that Clock is one of the hardest events to hold, besides maybe Feet, FMC, and BLD events.

it is for the fun of you competing, not them spectating.
This is definitely true, but it's always a plus if the spectators enjoy the event as well. It helps to advance the hobby and make it more interesting to the public.

Ok in that case I would like to see where it says that the WCA only does twisty puzzles.
Sort of here.
The language is quite ambiguous though, as they do say they govern "competitions for all puzzles labelled as Rubik puzzles, and all other puzzles that are played by twisting the sides," but this is definitely not the case for either. They specifically say "all," but many many puzzles are missing. I'll give you this one, as they do mention Rubik's puzzles in particular, but they hardly follow their own rule.

Maybe you do

Okay, so is it solved?

Not trying to get into a serious argument or anything here, but I always enjoy a friendly debate. You definitely brought up some good points.

#### Mastermind2368

##### Member
Well I kida see what you mean about lots of clocks not following the regs. Then again, there is lots of grey areas. In the puzzles section of the regs their is only one reg about clock. And with the bad clocks, most people won't have bad clocks if they are borrowing them. The worst comp legal clock I have tried, was bad, but still good enough to scramble at the same speed as a lubed lingo with Rubik's pins

3h4) For Clock, custom "inserts" (the same shape and size as the traditional paper inserts) are permitted, at the discretion of the WCA Delegate. The inserts must have a clear indication of 12 o'clock that matches the original inserts.

I would assume that some of the regs apply to clock and some don't. 3d13 would be one that doesn't apply to clock

3d1b) Color blind competitors who cannot distinguish between the necessary number of colors may use colored parts with patterns, if it has been explicitly approved according to Regulation 2s. Patterns may come from stickers or be drawn.

and 3d does apply because of the whole thing about not being allowed to checker your clock

3d) Puzzles must have colored parts, which define the color scheme of the puzzle and must be one and only one of the following: colored stickers, colored tiles, colored plastic, or painted/printed colors. All colored parts of a puzzle must be made of a similar material.
Besides these points, I've noticed that at all the comps I've been to with Clock, there's a sort of Clock black market whenever the event rolls around. Everyone is trying to use someone else's Clock since nobody has a legal one, and this is ridiculous since many people are trying to compete at the same time. I don't think it can be denied that Clock is one of the hardest events to hold, besides maybe Feet, FMC, and BLD events.
I know what you're saying about people borrowing clocks, but from my experience its mostly because they signed up for clock and they don't own it or the clock nerd at the table has a very good clock. I have been in both positions, borrowing a Rubik's brand from the Organizer, then the next comp letting people borrow my Rubik's brand that I had bought for the two reasons I said.
This is definitely true, but it's always a plus if the spectators enjoy the event as well. It helps to advance the hobby and make it more interesting to the public.
Fare enough, but I checked for a few upcoming comps that have clock, at the least events other then clock that they had was 5. I don't know about you but 1/6th of a comp not for making the hobby bigger sounds fare to me.
The language is quite ambiguous though, as they do say they govern "competitions for all puzzles labelled as Rubik puzzles, and all other puzzles that are played by twisting the sides," but this is definitely not the case for either. They specifically say "all," but many many puzzles are missing. I'll give you this one, as they do mention Rubik's puzzles in particular, but they hardly follow their own rule.
I mean even if it isn't 3d, it still twists.
Okay, so is it solved?
Ok you got me on that one, but to be fare with something like a big cube could have two centers swapped on the B and D faces making it another puzzle that you think could be solved or not. Same goes with Multi, FMC, Pyra a nxn cube at an angle could have a twister corner, skewb can have three centers cycled on the B L and D faced and held at an angle, any number of things with mega as you can only see half the cube at most. With any puzzle held an angle, it could appear solved.

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Is there a consensus on what is the best pin order?

Or any tips on how to choose a good pin order?

I've tried a few different ones and they all seem to have their pros and cons. I'd like to make a good choice early and stick with it.

#### Mastermind2368

##### Member
I mean, I think the idea of a pin order is stupid. I just do whatever and make my rotation always be X2. Before I lost my clock for some time I was sub 9 like this and I'm sure faster is possible.

#### Ronxu

##### Member
I mean, I think the idea of a pin order is stupid. I just do whatever and make my rotation always be X2. Before I lost my clock for some time I was sub 9 like this and I'm sure faster is possible.
You can quickly check if you can skip the last move of your first face if you have a set pin order. I'm sure it takes a lot longer when you "do whatever".

#### mark49152

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Just to clarify, I want a fixed pin order and am asking for recommendations for which order is best, or what are the important things to consider when choosing one.

#### Ronxu

##### Member
Just to clarify, I want a fixed pin order and am asking for recommendations for which order is best, or what are the important things to consider when choosing one.
Do either of the bottom gears first to match up center and top dial then only turn the top gears in whichever orders feels the best. I do DL UR UL U ALL-DR unless there are lucky cases or something.

Edit: If you do a y2 you don't have to change the position of any of the pins. If you have an center+edge lucky case you can do an x2 after the first face to avoid changing any pins.

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#### Benjamin Warry

##### Member
1. It's impossible to get a good Clock without a lot of work and/or a lot of money.
2. It's near impossible to have at competitions without issues.
2a. People misscramble.
2b. People make the Clocks fall over when lifting the cover, requiring an extra scramble.
2c. Runners actually need to be qualified, otherwise they'll push pins in accidentally.
2d. Like half of the Clocks people bring to comps aren't legal.
2e. 80% of the ones that are legal are near-impossible to turn, making the scramblers mad.
3. It's boring for spectators.
4. It really doesn't belong in the WCA, as it's nothing like any other event. If it weren't made by Rubik's, there's no way it would've been considered. It's about as similar to a Rubik's Cube as a 15 puzzle or one of these is.
And for these reasons we don't have clock in Australia.

#### Underwatercuber

##### Member
And for these reasons we don't have clock in Australia.
Basically worldwide. I have only been to 1 comp with clock because everyone hates it it's my best event too