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California Proposition 19 (Legalization of Marijuana)

drewsopchak

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Free market economics

In Terms of government, the war in drugs is extremely costly with little results. In ordern to eliminate the border violence and end the cartels, you have to have competiion. Legalize, tax it a bunch. No one will buy expensive monopolized weed when you could screw yourself by walking to a gas station. Thats the Personal reaponsibility and free market economic policy. Plus, honesty we have much better ways to spend us debt then trying to enfource laws , so easy to break.
 

freshcuber

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I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but this is a serious issue.

California has one of the poorest public education systems in the country, and thousands of teachers have been laid off, with more to follow. As I've said, the state's budget is severely strained and funding to education has been slashed in recent years. If we have to let a couple of people get high as an investment in our future, I'm all for it.

I was being serious.
 

qqwref

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How is legalizing it going to help better control it?
Because whenever you have an illegal product which can potentially provide huge profits, organized crime springs up or moves in to take advantage of that. (If you legalize all the drugs, where are gangs going to make enough money to afford weapons and cars and so on?) Selling drugs is a huge business, not just because drugs are popular and expensive, but because the dealers can easily cut the drug with useless or even dangerous additives. That way, you can have something which easily sells for 10+ times the cost of production and transportation. Regulation shouldn't be much of a problem because the alternative is often dangerous - I've heard of many cases where one drug was mixed with another drug or even a somewhat toxic chemical, and nobody wants to consume something that has no guarantee of safety.

On the other hand, if something is legal, it's very easy to control. You will get big companies who produce it (like the huge alcohol and tobacco companies) and can then be held accountable for what they do and what they sell. Reputation matters and a company with many negative reports will actually have an incentive to fix their product, unlike a gang who couldn't care less if their customers get sick or die. As an added bonus, big companies can optimize costs a lot, and can end up producing something so cheaply that it would actually take more money and/or time to buy it illegally.
 

Lorken

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Plenty of people who smoke weed do very well in school. I write WAY better.

The effects of weed only last on average about 2 hours when smoked, and does not have long term effects. Maybe if you smoke 10 minutes before class you might have an issue.

I used to be baked almost 100% of my waking hours, it still doesn't stop my engineering A+'s though :D Just can't do it before a test :fp

Dude I'm way ahead of you

:D
 
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I personally believe we have more serious issues to deal with than this.
*coughcoughf**kedupeducationalsystemCOUGHCOUGHthozdurnallurgyz:I*

Marijuana prohibition is an extremely serious issue in the United States.

Thousands of innocent civilians, including children, are murdered along the Mexican border every year in a drug war largely fueled by the profits cartels make from the sale of marijuana.

The lives of hundreds of thousands of people are ruined every year for marijuana possession. Children are taken from parents by the state, mothers and fathers are sent to prison, and families are split apart for nothing more than responsibly using marijuana.

Hundreds of innocent Americans have been murdered in botched police raids nationwide due to the prohibition of marijuana. People with debilitating and painful illnesses are literally denied the most effective medication available to them, then thrown in prison for possession of that medicine. Many of them die because of this.

I would highly recommend that you read a few of the stories on http://www.mpp.org/victims/victim-stories.html and http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/, and then come back to laugh about how "stupid" it is that people care about marijuana prohibition.
 
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Joker

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Where I start to care is when what one does affects someone else. If someone gets in a car crash and kills them self only (and maybe a lamp post or tree) then that's their fault. But if they kill someone else, then is when the government has to step in and do something about it.

Look at prohibition, failure. What makes this any different?

~Chris

People are definately going to be affected that do not smoke it. I can guarantee. People go to a club, get high off of it, and drive drunk. Many people get killed when people are on drugs, even when the drugs aren't something like alcohol.
 

FatBoyXPC

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Anybody with any economical sense can see why legalizing Marijuana would have great effects on the economy. Weed is used quite a bit more often (in the group of people I know) than alcohol, and would be almost doubled if they didn't have to do it in the comfort of their own home.

I completely agree with Hadley about this. Alcohol is much more dangerous than Marijuana. Unfortunately his first statement is flawed a bit. 500,000 Alcohol related deaths (this lumps in drunk driving which is a huge cause of deaths) whereas it states that nobody has overdosed on Marijunana (but how many have died because a driver was high?).

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/07/20/the_6_most_common_causes_of_automobile_crashes.htm Driving while high is not even on this list.

Hadley, do you remember talking about Alcohol vs Marijuana at Applebees with me? :p

Tim Reynolds: Have you ever snored with your windows open? What about wore a goatee in public? If you went to church on Sundays, did you carry a rifle with you? Prior to 2000. did you have any tattoos or body piercings? There are a lot of dumb laws in almost every state, yet according to you, each should be jailed for the offense.

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/massachusetts

http://wbztv.com/slideshows/strange.massachusetts.laws.20.760206.html

qqwref: You said based off intuition about how people drive crazy drunk but calm stoned. Both of these substances are downers. Using this logic alone, it doesn't make much sense that one downer would make you crazy whereas another would make you relaxed. Most of the "crazy attitudes" from drunkness are caused by environment (parties and such), which can still make high people act the same way.
 
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Joker

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Aren't some drugs you smoke considered healthy in some cases? Some people say weed has made their health better, but they might just be imaginating it.
 

qqwref

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Imaginating? (And many people have had clear improvements from using medicinal marijuana. I'd like to hear the same about medical cigarettes or medical booze.)

The article Woner linked to is pretty interesting. Funny how being the middleman in a pot sale is considered more dangerous to society than being a murderer or rapist.
 
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Funny how being the middleman in a pot sale is considered more dangerous to society than being a murderer or rapist.

Well, if you take the long historical view, this could almost be considered progress of a sort. Once upon a time heresy (thought crime) was considered one of the most dangerous crimes against society. Now we have progressed to simply assisting the voluntary placement of reasonably harmless chemicals into someone's body as the most heinous offense to social order.
 
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Tim Reynolds

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Tim Reynolds: Have you ever snored with your windows open? What about wore a goatee in public? If you went to church on Sundays, did you carry a rifle with you? Prior to 2000. did you have any tattoos or body piercings? There are a lot of dumb laws in almost every state, yet according to you, each should be jailed for the offense.

Cool, you put words in my mouth.

My argument was that Ethan's last point was not true. A person that violates the law is not innocent, however ridiculous said laws may be. As I stated, I'm not arguing whether or not the laws should be in place, merely the fact that (as I understood) Ethan was saying that those who are in jail for smoking weed were innocent. This is patently false--they broke the law, and therefore they are not innocent. Ethan's argument has been clarified/modified by others, so as long as it is clear that Ethan is not suggesting that those who smoke weed are innocent, I have no issue with his argument.

And, nice try, but no, I haven't broken any of those laws while in Massachusetts. I have jaywalked though. Every time I do so, I understand that I am breaking the law and may be ticketed. People who smoke weed should do so with the understanding that they are breaking the laws, and may suffer legal consequences. They can also use democratic, legal means to alter said laws, as they are attempting to do now. I support their use of democracy. But I will call foul when arguments in favor of legalization of marijuana are factually incorrect (as I understood Ethan's last point to be). I would do that for both sides, but there's enough people on this thread on the pro side that they're doing a good enough job of it. Plus, most of the anti arguments on this thread are too pointless to waste time arguing with.
 
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Ethan Rosen

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I meant innocent as in morally innocent, not legally innocent. I am obviously aware that smoking/possessing marijuana is against the law.
 

blakedacuber

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5-10 times a week isnt much i was talking to several different people who smoke marajuana and i asked how many theyd smoke a week an most said maybe 20


i agree with Chris th if someone wants to do self harm let them as long as it only harms them

how do u define a chav?just curious
 
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Ethan Rosen

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Anyone who smokes 20 times a week is not a casual smoker. That is very heavy use.
 

Hadley4000

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People are definately going to be affected that do not smoke it. I can guarantee. People go to a club, get high off of it, and drive drunk. Many people get killed when people are on drugs, even when the drugs aren't something like alcohol.


Walking through a club or bar and passing smoke won't get you high. You'd pretty much have to be in the car with it. It takes a LOT more than passing it to get you high. If that were the case, all jam band and reggae concerts would have everyone high.
 
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