# California Proposition 19 (Legalization of Marijuana)

#### Lorken

##### Member
I am all for it, except I live in New Zealand and no, it's not bad for you imo.

EDIT: Just read through the rest of the topic, it is almost impossible to overdose on marijuana. I will discuss more on this topic later, I have an exam in the morning

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Well...

"Hi William."
"High Weston."

#### Tim Reynolds

and most importantly, stop sending innocent people to jail.

This point I'll dispute. Breaking federal law does not make one "innocent". Whether or not that crime is one that should be prosecuted, or should be a crime at all, is another question entirely, and I don't care to argue either side in that debate. But a person who is arrested for using marijuana is not "innocent".

#### qqwref

##### Member
Like George Carlin said "The kid who swallows too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own."
What if the people in power don't believe in evolution? :tu

Where I start to care is when what one does affects someone else. If someone gets in a car crash and kills them self only (and maybe a lamp post or tree) then that's their fault. But if they kill someone else, then is when the government has to step in and do something about it.
I saw an article about a study which found that people who are drunk tend to drive more quickly/dangerously (I guess they feel invincible or something) whereas people who are stoned tend to drive more slowly/cautiously (I guess they know they're intoxicated). I can't back this up, but it seems valid just going on intuition. Haven't heard of a lot of car crashes attributed to someone who was only stoned.

Ethan Rosen said:
stop sending innocent people to jail
This point I'll dispute. Breaking federal law does not make one "innocent". [...] a person who is arrested for using marijuana is not "innocent".
Right, but I think what he really meant was that marijuana users aren't guilty of an ethical wrong against other people. To me and probably many others, the real point of law is to protect people from each other and prevent dangerous people from continuing to do damage, not to just list a bunch of random things and jail anyone who does them. Nobody is protected when you arrest a marijuana user. I suppose you could say that you are protecting the user themself, but that doesn't fit with the current prison system in the US, because it tends to offer a lot more drug use and violence than actual rehabilitative effort.

#### DavidWoner

##### The Punchmaster
This point I'll dispute. Breaking federal law does not make one "innocent". Whether or not that crime is one that should be prosecuted, or should be a crime at all, is another question entirely, and I don't care to argue either side in that debate. But a person who is arrested for using marijuana is not "innocent".

In most major marijuana cases, prosecutors are willing to lessen sentences if the defendants testify against others. So those who were highly involved barely serve time and those who were hardly associated often have the blame laid on them, and since they don't have any names to give they end up serving everyone else's time. So with the current system, it is VERY possible for innocent people to go to jail. I know this article is kind of long, but it was assigned reading for my POLS class and I would definitely recommend it: https://bboard.mcckc.edu/@@5367F84C...ntent/_1536822_1/Schlosser_REEFER MADNESS.doc

#### IamWEB

##### Member
Wait a second...

How is legalizing it going to help better control it? If anyone has a problem with whatever system they want to impose, can't they just go back to the good old fashion way of obtaining it illegally?

#### endless_akatsuki

##### Member
Wait a second...

How is legalizing it going to help better control it? If anyone has a problem with whatever system they want to impose, can't they just go back to the good old fashion way of obtaining it illegally?

yeah, but as a rule of thumb, people prefer not to get arrested.

#### DavidWoner

##### The Punchmaster
Because obtaining it illegally is a pain in the ass. If I can just go down to the gas station and pick up a soda and a sack, you can bet that's what I (and most people) will do.

Sure people still make moonshine illegally, but it pales in comparison to legal alcohol sales, simply because it is so much easier to just do it legally.

#### ChrisBird

What if the people in power don't believe in evolution? :tu

That's their problem =p
His quote was an example I used to explain what I mean, pertaining to personal responsibility vs. Government hand-holding.

#### IamWEB

##### Member
yeah, but as a rule of thumb, people prefer not to get arrested.

If someone had a problem with the system of obtaining it, couldn't they just go back an obtain it illegally? Obtaining it not being that hard of a thing to do, sometimes. (@David)

#### Joker

##### Member
I don't agree with drugs like those. I disagree.

Because obtaining it illegally is a pain in the ass. If I can just go down to the gas station and pick up a soda and a sack, you can bet that's what I (and most people) will do.

Sure people still make moonshine illegally, but it pales in comparison to legal alcohol sales, simply because it is so much easier to just do it legally.

There's a difference, though. Making moonshine is still illegal. Under prop 19, adults have the right to grow their own cannabis in a 5'x5' plot, and keep and share (share, not sell, but that's not much of an obstacle) the harvest.

More on topic, though, I plan to vote YES. As has been said before, the prohibition of cannabis does much more harm than good. Prop 19 will do the following:

1. Increase tax revenue. California is broke, and we need all the tax revenue we can get. Cannabis is California's biggest cash crop, with an estimated $14 billion in sales annually. And right now, only a tiny fraction of that is taxed. While this initiative doesn't include a tax, it provides a framework for the state legislature as well as individual cities to levy taxes on cannabis. 2. Decrease law enforcement spending. California spends roughly$200 million enforcing prohibition every year. Our jails are full, our courts are packed, and again, the state is already broke. This frees up a ton of state funds to be used for more important things, like education.

3. Weaken drug cartels. Much of the illegal cannabis trade in California can be traced back to Mexican drug gangs. Remember that $14 billion Californians spend on cannabis every year? Yup, a lot of that goes to violent gangsters over the border. We can draw parallels to alcohol prohibition, which put power in the hands of bootlegging gangs. 4. Decrease racial ineq-**** this. I'm too high for this ****. Smoke weed every day. #### Hadley4000 ##### Member It is WAY safer than alcohol, which is legal. They can tax the hell out of it, helping the economy a lot. It will lower the rate of new people using harder drugs(The gateway theory is illogical, the main reason why a lot of people who start smoking are around other drugs when buying it on the black market). Gang violence will go down. The prison system won't be as clogged, saving us money and keep people who really aren't criminals out of the prison system. It's good for you in many ways, and unlike things like alcohol and tobacco, does not have serious long term effects. A few facts and comparisons. 50,000 people die per year from alcohol related deaths. There has never been a documented case of death caused by marijuana intoxication. There are several safe ways to ingest marijuana, that are not at risk of causing any lung problems. Marijuana can be cooked into baked goods, and can also be vaporized. Marijuana is not addictive.. With the lack of physical damaging, lack of death rate, and lack of addiction, marijuana does not pose ability for serious abuse, as alcohol does. Marijuana does not cause memory loss. True, there can be some loss of short term memory, your long term memory does not get effected. Marijuana has been proven to be used as a successful medicine. Marijuana reduces nausea, which is why a common use for the medical marijuana is people who are going through chemotherapy. The mentally relaxing prospects have been able to help people with things such as ADHD. The physical relaxation can help reduce physical torretes tics. Marijuana also causes hunger(Slang term "The munchies"), and has been used to treat those suffering from eating disorders such as anorexia. Marijuana causes your eye muscles to relax. This side effect has been proven to help aid those who suffer from glaucoma. The physical relaxation effects of marijuana also can help those with pain, muscle tension and arthritis. Really, there aren't any legitimate reason for it to be illegal. #### flan ##### Premium Member If someone had a problem with the system of obtaining it, couldn't they just go back an obtain it illegally? Obtaining it not being that hard of a thing to do, sometimes. (@David) The black market will have shrunk considerably. It wouldnt be easy anymore. Just like how its not easy for the average person to obtain moonshine these days. #### Hadley4000 ##### Member The black market will have shrunk considerably. It wouldnt be easy anymore. Just like how its not easy for the average person to obtain moonshine these days. Yup. It will probably get to the know the right person status over a period of time. Also, I forgot. If it is legally grown, the risk of the weed being laced with **** like sherm, or sprayed with water to weigh it down will be eliminated. #### freshcuber ##### Member 2. Decrease law enforcement spending. California spends roughly$200 million enforcing prohibition every year. Our jails are full, our courts are packed, and again, the state is already broke. This frees up a ton of state funds to be used for more important things, like education.

I'm not going to get in this debate because I live 3,000 miles away and there are already people arguing my view but I must applaud you for connecting the legalization of marijuana to the bettering of California's education. Well done :tu

##### Member
I'm not going to get in this debate because I live 3,000 miles away and there are already people arguing my view but I must applaud you for connecting the legalization of marijuana to the bettering of California's education. Well done :tu

Plenty of people who smoke weed do very well in school. I write WAY better.

The effects of weed only last on average about 2 hours when smoked, and does not have long term effects. Maybe if you smoke 10 minutes before class you might have an issue.

#### amostay2004

##### Member
Damn you guys make me wanna smoke some weed

#### endless_akatsuki

##### Member
I don't agree with drugs like those. I disagree.

So what drug do you agree with?