# best BLD method

#### normanbim

##### Member
I've learned bill mcgaugh's two-cycle method approach last year.
average=8min
fastest=5min
Today I'm using macky's three-cycle method
average=5min
fastest=2:58.67

then I see shaipo's world record at 54.83 sec and i was like "dang, it's impossible to do that, and he uses a different method"
so currently I'm learning stefan pochmann's orient-permute cycling but generally, i just want to learn shaipo's method for solving 3x3x3 blindfolded. so, can anyone teach me? please...

#### Erik

##### Member
Only Matyi can learn you that cause he is the only one who knows it.
Currently I'm working on a method that can come close to the speed of Matyi's method. I think I'll make it public soon.

#### Johannes91

##### Member
Rowe Hessler is pretty fast, too, and he says he uses purely Macky's method.

#### masterofthebass

I use Pochmann's and my best is 2:04. The only problem with it, is that it takes a while because you're only doing one piece at a time. Also, if you're doing Stefan's original method, the T perm takes over 2 seconds for me on avg, which adds time on for execution. The Y perm isn't much faster either. Using Macky's method is probably the quickest method that's out there right now, but you just have learn a lot of algorithms. I'm pretty sure Leyan and Rowe and everyone uses Macky's method.

#### Johannes91

##### Member
Using Macky's method is probably the quickest method that's out there right now, but you just have learn a lot of algorithms. I'm pretty sure Leyan and Rowe and everyone uses Macky's method.
Well, 5-10 algs is certainly enough to get really fast times, and most cubers know a few of those already.

Mátyás doesn't use that method as far as I know.

#### edd5190

##### Member
I've heard from several people/places that Matyas uses an "advanced 3-cycle", method with no orientation stage. I'm guessing that's why he has amazing times. Also Rowe Hessler said that he uses a similar method.

#### Jack

##### Member
Does he use M2? In the videos he looks like he is using the M slice a lot.

#### Mátyás Kuti(shaipo)

##### Member
Does he use M2? In the videos he looks like he is using the M slice a lot.
They are edge 3 cycles, with M and U turns...

#### normanbim

##### Member
hmm. i'm thinking of having a method using
1)corner orient
2)corner permute
3)edge orient-permute

#### Pedro

##### Member
then you can use Stefan's M2 method for the edges...

or commutators

or 3-cycles with free setups

#### Davepencilguin

##### Member
Just an idea:
What if you used something like the T or Y permutation to permute edges and corners at the same time?
It would be a 2-cycle method, but it could still be fast.
Maybe even then, the setup moves could me developed so that orientation was done along with the double permutation...

#### AvGalen

That would give you very fast Alg-execution, but very slow (and difficult) setup moves. Also, you would have trouble because there are 8 corners and 12 edges so you would be "short on corners" to do the cycles with. Parities and small versus large cycles all would require a lot of thinking. Basically it would be really fast to execute if you could figure out the solution before the timer starts. Otherwise it would be to slow.

(and technically it would be a 2x2 cycle method)

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#### joey

##### Member
I just tried to solve using corners and edges at the same time, and the algs weren't actually *that* hard! But, they are hard enough to require several seconds to think about, which is a waste of time! During BLD setup moves should take no time to think about. Therefore the actual solving could be quite fast, but delays could be long.

#### AvGalen

I had a discussion with Clément Gallet and Gilles vdP on exactly this topic last weekend in Lyon. I think I will give it a try because it would require less memorisation than 3-cycle and my setup-moves are already slow so it won't hurt my speed as much as most others.

Nice link Stefan, do you know if anyone (Daniel) actually uses this method? The topic just died a long time ago.

#### Stefan

##### Member
I don't, but he's an active member here.

#### Davepencilguin

##### Member
Corner orientation couldn't be incorporated into it...
The more I think about it, the more it seems impossible. (or, I should say, WAY too difficult.)

At most, it would be:
corner orientation
edge orientation with edge and corner permutation

#### Stefan

##### Member
Corner orientation couldn't be incorporated into it...
The more I think about it, the more it seems impossible. (or, I should say, WAY too difficult.)
Why? Just learn six times as many algs, one for each edge+corner orientation. Then set the pieces up the shortest way possible and use the appropriately orienting alg. I believe that's what Daniel already did and described.