# back at zz

#### gsingh

##### Member
No more Hungarian Supernova? : (. At least you picked Lichess, it's very much better and less disracting. Chess.com is almost pay to play and it's less ascetically pleasing.
you're still alive!

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
Working on an interesting (open source) program for method exploration!
• 3x3 specific
• Purpose: To explore and discover ways to break down steps (reducing a set of states to a subset)
• small scale example: finding ways to solve last layer in two steps (step analysis)
• large scale example: finding ways for breaking down the the process of solving the entirety of the Rubik's cube (method analysis)
• Overview of program and ideas (brain dump)
• input start and target state sets
• see estimated complexity (number of cases) and efficiency (number of algorithms / number of cases)
• generate algs for cases and see average movecount, average estimated speed, best cases, worst cases
• autotransform algs to optimize speed?
• goal: reduce complexity by breaking down by an intermediate state set
• manually by inputting an intermediate state set, or
• genetic algorithm to automatically find a combination of (user-defined) properties for intermediate state set?
• repeat process with start or target set and intermediate set to break down further
No promises. This is by far the most complicated program I have attempted to build, and I can't guarantee I successfully build it. But at worst, this serves as inspiration for a more skilled programmer and method developer!

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
Hey all!

I sort of went off track from my original Method Explorer goals. Stupidly late in the middle of programming my original ideas, I realized that the position of pieces does not matter when it comes to calculating "complexity". After this late revelation, I made a much, much simpler program that only takes into account of the number of pieces with the properties (just basic EP, EO, CP, CO).

Here is the program if you want to play with it. It's a short and sweet Python script and you just input values for START and GOAL. (EP, EO, CP, CO)

I got some interesting results with this program.

For solving the entirety of the Rubik's cube START = (0,0,0,0); END = (12,11,8,7) it gives (2, 6, 8, 3) as the least complex intermediate set of states. This means that the least complex (fewest number of cases before + after) way to solve the Rubik's cube (from the perspective of focusing on EP, EO, CP, CO apart from each other) in two steps is by first permuting 2 edges, orienting 6 edges, permuting 8 corners, and orienting 3 corners! There's many ways to interpret this, the program doesn't care about the positions of the pieces, we get to choose!

Next I would like to say that I have a growing interest in BLD solving, specifically big cubes, and might get back into cubing with BLD!

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
Username change because I am not particularly fast nor do I use ZZ (when I get back into cubing I will be focused on BLD, as I said in my previous post)

#### Filipe Teixeira

##### Member
Username change because I am not particularly fast nor do I use ZZ (when I get back into cubing I will be focused on BLD, as I said in my previous post)
again?

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
I drop 3BLD. I know I haven't posted anything regarding progression on 3BLD--that is because I didn't have any significant progression at all. All I has motivation for was to learn basic 3-style which alone is a satisfactory accomplishment for me.

So, I randomly decided to try some ZZ speedsolving again. Amazingly, I found that I was able to inspect full CN eocross much more easily than ever before. This seems to be a common pattern of mine: I drop something for a while, then when I return I magically improve. Maybe it's a mindset difference: approaching with a fresh, open, relaxed attitude vs. pressuring myself as I had when I was seriously training EOcrosses. My work I had put into planning and optimizing CN EOcross (with the help of my trainer, see my signature!) was extremely tiring, and I had no motivation to put that into practice during inspection, but undoubtedly did improve my skill threshold. Now, with a fresh mind, it seems I am able to reap the fruits of this work in practice.

I had previously dropped zbor after learning the T set, and slowly forgot everything due to negligence. I will not back down so easily this time. At the very least, I wish to retain knowledge of a full set permanently. I only hope that I will have a similar situation as I did with CN EOcross: that I will discover that I can come back stronger than before.

My revelation has lead me to realize: I don't have to be a lazy theorycrafting bum no more. I will be the first to perfect the art of optimal ZZ; that will be my sole focus in cubing. I will use my (now extremely limited) time the best I can.

#### Timona

##### Member
I will use my (now extremely limited) time the best I can.
Whatchu mean by that? Are you gonna die soon???

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
Whatchu mean by that? Are you gonna die soon???
i hope not. i was mostly referring to the fact have a lot going on, now that i am finishing up high school and thinking about university

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
Fall break. Learning full sune ZBLL, and antisune if i have time. I enjoy learning these sets because the algs are extremely good and it is funny to see peoples' reactions. Top level cubers know almost full ZBLL except sune/antisune? Because it isn't worth it? Fascinating. But did I ask?
Anyway i'm going to be learning full ZBLL eventually so the order doesnt matter, all that matters is maintaining motivation which this undoubtedly is helping with.
3 days in and i'm already halfway done with sune ZBLL

#### DuckubingCuber347

##### Member
Fall break. Learning full sune ZBLL, and antisune if i have time. I enjoy learning these sets because the algs are extremely good and it is funny to see peoples' reactions. Top level cubers know almost full ZBLL except sune/antisune? Because it isn't worth it? Fascinating. But did I ask?
Anyway i'm going to be learning full ZBLL eventually so the order doesnt matter, all that matters is maintaining motivation which this undoubtedly is helping with.
3 days in and i'm already halfway done with sune ZBLL
It's hilarious when one tells a younger cuber they differ from the norm. At my comp people that came up to me could not wrap their heads around the fact that I used Black/yellow on my Square-1 and used a modded Valk as my OH main. I tried telling them the benefits and uses of BY, yellow is more vibrant than white, it looks better, Female WR holder uses it, it's not boring, I personally find it to be easier on the eyes, all I got was a "you do you" and "each to their own". As for the VE I had to keep telling them it was a Valk 3 core with Valk Elite pieces, yet they still insisted on calling it a Valk.

It's a great trait to stray from the norm. While it is annoying to have to explain to people constantly why you do things differently I believe it is healthy to have a different mindset and just simply not care what others say to try to talk you out of something. The funny thing is is that the most loyal normalist usually is very weak when attempting a debate and has nothing to say to defend any counter whatsoever.

Do I believe S/AS ZBLL is worth it? Not at all. But I admire those who push the boundaries and go for it. The algs are great for the most part, it has lower movecount, it's 1LLL, and it's just super cool. I wish you luck on your journey.

As a side topic, are you thinking about improving at OH at all? I assume you still use Roux, what are your goals?

#### ruffleduck

##### Member
I thank you for your support, and insight regarding how silly young cubers are. It is a duck-eating-popcorn worthy story you shared.
I believe sune/antisune ZBLL is absolutely worth it if you are forcing EO solved last layer. Sure, sune into PLL is very fast. But it follows that sune ZBLL is even better (by nature of ZBLL) and this is useful considering it is encountered 8/27 solves. Is it as "worth it" as other ZBLL sets? Relatively, it does not have as much speed improvement compared to OCLL PLL. Are there other areas of solving more important to work on? Certainly. But the sune algs are fire and extremely satisfying to pull off, not to mention bragging rights.

As a side topic, are you thinking about improving at OH at all? I assume you still use Roux, what are your goals?
I do indeed use Roux. I do not have aspirations because i believe my one handed turning ability is limited, and because I lack interest. May come back to it in the future (unlikely)