# Average moves per solve?

#### lucaspcuber

##### Member
I was wondering what the average amount of moves used per solve is in correlation with a person's average time? I average about 15-17 seconds, and use on average 55-65 (63 ao12) moves per solve. What about everyone else? If I get enough responses, I might compile this into a table for everyone else to compare to.

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#### 1001010101001

##### Member
40-50, 16-18 seconds.
Roux, of course.

#### WoowyBaby

##### Member
18 seconds, 54 moves, FreeFOP
((50+53+61+48+56)/5=53.6)
(Current ao100=18.28)

#### Mike Hughey

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Haven't done this in a while:
63 64 53 (40) 58 64 (72) 58 67 61 58 50 = 59.6 moves, seemed quite typical
basic CFOP, 20 seconds average

#### PapaSmurf

##### Member
45-55, 10.4s, ZZ (EOCross).
Would be lower with EOLine.

#### PugCuber

##### Member
Probably like 40-50 or so. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.

#### Mike Hughey

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Probably like 40-50 or so. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.
That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?

#### PugCuber

##### Member
That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?
I use a handful of different algs from various different subsets. Plus, with FMC, before I learned NISS, My average FMC solution with only CFOP was about 52. I know Full COLL, About 30 ZBLL's, about half of WV, almost all of ELL, a bit of OLLCP, etc.

#### WoowyBaby

##### Member
That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?
Wondering the same thing...
the only reason I might get movecounts in the forties is by building easy blocks for F2L. If you want to could you maybe do 5 solves and count your moves to get a better number? I’m not saying I don’t believe I’m just saying it’s very odd to get 40-50 moves for CFOP.

Edit: lol Pug Cuber posted at the same time as me
Ohhhh for FMC got it, okay. Makes sense.

But just FYI this thread is talking about speedsolving movecount not FMC

#### GioccioCuber

##### Member
45-50 CFOP, 11 seconds

#### PugCuber

##### Member
But just FYI this thread is talking about speedsolving movecount not FMC
I understand that. I'm just making a relation to my FMC move count. My average FMC move count with only CFOP is very similar to my regular speedsolving move count.

#### Mike Hughey

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
I use a handful of different algs from various different subsets. Plus, with FMC, before I learned NISS, My average FMC solution with only CFOP was about 52. I know Full COLL, About 30 ZBLL's, about half of WV, almost all of ELL, a bit of OLLCP, etc.
That would seem to imply you've gotten a lot better at move optimization since then - if your average FMC solution (where you got to try multiple times for the best solution) was 52, you'd think your average then for a regular solve must have been more like 55 to 60.

And in my experience, faster solvers, since they have more algs to choose from on a speedsolve, tend to actually increase the move count slightly, since they often use speed-optimal algs instead of move-optimal algs. I remember that in my first few years, I actually used move-optimal T perm, U perm, E perm, which made me much slower, but gave me a better move count than I have today.

I'm thinking this survey may not have a lot of value if people don't actually do an average and specifically count - I suspect people's estimates are often very far off. I know I actually expected less than 59 for myself, but I didn't get that. The moves just pile up so fast when you're doing OLL/PLL.

#### PugCuber

##### Member
That would seem to imply you've gotten a lot better at move optimization since then - if your average FMC solution (where you got to try multiple times for the best solution) was 52, you'd think your average then for a regular solve must have been more like 55 to 60.

And in my experience, faster solvers, since they have more algs to choose from on a speedsolve, tend to actually increase the move count slightly, since they often use speed-optimal algs instead of move-optimal algs. I remember that in my first few years, I actually used move-optimal T perm, U perm, E perm, which made me much slower, but gave me a better move count than I have today.

I'm thinking this survey may not have a lot of value if people don't actually do an average and specifically count - I suspect people's estimates are often very far off. I know I actually expected less than 59 for myself, but I didn't get that. The moves just pile up so fast when you're doing OLL/PLL.
That is very true. The thing is, after becoming sub 12 yesterday, my lookahead is starting to get a lot better; as a result, my solves are more efficient, and as such, may cause a lower move count. Another thing that has affected my lookahead in a positive way, is by doing 3x3 with feet. Since I'm turning slower, I can lookahead much further. i.e., like I did in my 38.26 Official Feet Solve I got at Southern Champs. By 1looking to 2nd pair in that solve, my lookahead got much better for both feet, and 3x3.

#### Milo Black

##### Member
51.80 move count ao12 i average about 10

#### PugCuber

##### Member
That seems really efficient for straight CFOP - how do you get your move count so low?
Well, I am Fully Color Neutral. That may be why.

Just did a move count ao12 as well.
Lowest Move Count: 39
Highest Move Count: 61
43, 53, 54, 54, 50, 54, 55, 56, (39), (61), 54 = ~47.3 Moves on Average

#### efattah

##### Member
Just did a move count ao12 as well.
Lowest Move Count: 39
Highest Move Count: 61
43, 53, 54, 54, 50, 54, 55, 56, (39), (61), 54 = ~47.3 Moves on Average
That list contains 11 solves, and if you average the 9 counting ones, the average is 52.55, not 47.3.

#### WoowyBaby

##### Member
Here is Pug Cuber’s post but correct-

“Around 53 moves. CFOP. Newly Sub-12.”