# 4x4 LBL Method

#### cannon4747

##### Member
what i do:
1: layer one (centers cross corners - ccc)
i solve the first center
then the cross edge pairs
and insert corners.

2: 2nd layer (centers edges - 2ce)
i use the center swapping algorithm used in cage to solve the 2nd layer centers
(its helpful to make the side of the center youre solving the up face)
i use the k4 lbl algorithm to insert 2nd layer edges

3: 3rd layer (centers edges - 3ce)
i basically repeat the second step except that i apply it to the 3rd layer:
cage center swapping for 3rd layer centers
k4 lbl algorithm to insert 3rd layer edges

4*: 4th layer oll (double edges, corners - dcoll)
oll parity algorithm
+5x5 last two edges adjacent dedge swap algorithm
+setup moves
corners oll algorithms (from 3x3)

5**: pll of 4th layer (corners, dedges - cdpll)
corners pll as usual
use setup moves and adjacent dedge swap (5x5)
"special"*** pll algorithm combos to solve

*it is here that many people give up but its not impossible, i figured it out on my second try
**this is where you would normally need VERY long VERY complicated algorthims that would just take too long to figure out and remember so i use variations of know algs and setup moves to solve, (its never as hard as it looks)
***special pll algorithms are 3-gen pll algorithms (using F, R, and U moves only) where instead of using R (just outer layer) i use Rr (Rw). its kind of hard to describe so to the t-perm this way and see the difference (you may want to use a 5x5 to see how it is truly a t-perm)
normal 3-gen t-perm used on 3x3:
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
"special" 3-gen t-perm used on big cubes:
Rr U Rr' U' Rr' F Rr2 U' Rr' U' Rr U Rr' F'

now look at the difference, and think about what you can do if you use the y-perm? or any other 3-gen permutaion?

you should mostly play around with these and also use regular pll algs to solve

this was very hard to figure out but most of it was playing around and if you play around with my instructions here then you will figure it out too

if you don't understand what setup moves are then watch this blindfold tutorial because a LARGE part of blindsolving is setup moves, and he explains it very well:

if anyone has ANY questions just ask me and if i get about 50 requests to make a video ill start working on one - good luck and happy solving

#### cincyaviation

##### Member
Not really anything special.

#### qqwref

##### Member
The basic LBL style has been known before, so that's not really anything new. If I'm understanding the OLL and PLL part right it sounds pretty inefficient and you'd be better off just doing normal OLL/PLL or CLL/ELL to solve corners (and middle edges if it's an odd cube) and then finishing off the edges with commutators.

#### Kirjava

##### Colourful
you can also do petrus. it's also retarded.

#### TheMachanga

##### Member
I've seen youtube videos of people solving 7x7 lbl, and other cubes. I think I saw a 2-7 relay once

#### Kynit

##### Member
Heh, big cube Petrus is the worst. Edge pairing with so little breathing room is hard.

#### Kirjava

##### Colourful
why would you even bother to pair if you were doing petrus?

#### Kynit

##### Member
Because I don't know what the bigcube equivalent of the EO step is

#### Kirjava

##### Colourful
edges have no orientation, you ignore the step entirely.

#### ben1996123

##### Banned
I "discovered" this method years ago.

#### Kynit

##### Member
How do you place the edges, then?

#### uberCuber

##### Member
1. petrus on bigcubes is just stupid

2. edges on bigcubes (except for the middle one on odd cubes) do not have orientation, only permutation. So you just place them, there is really no 'how' about it. Any time you are doing anything to an edge piece, even if you are doing "OLL parity", you are permuting the piece in some way. "OLL parity" swaps two edge pieces, not flips them.

3. this is lolthread, because the OP's method is called 'commutators'

#### Kirjava

##### Colourful
How do you place the edges, then?
like a boss.

3. this is lolthread, because the OP's method is called 'commutators'
If the OP knew about commutators his method would be a lot less silly.

How many algs does it take you to do the LL, babe?

#### Kynit

##### Member
2. edges on bigcubes (except for the middle one on odd cubes) do not have orientation, only permutation. So you just place them, there is really no 'how' about it.
Um.

I know wings have no orientation. How do you finish the F2L after the 3x3x4?

#### da25centz

##### Member
so its a bad version of k4?

#### Kirjava

##### Colourful
I know wings have no orientation. How do you finish the F2L after the 3x3x4?
columns, directly, etc

there are loads of ways. try and find a good one.

#### Tim Major

##### Platinum Member
I like CCFCE for 4x4
CC: Centres+cross Yau style.
F: corner + 1/2 of the edges. Then use U R U' (l' or r depending on case) U R' U' (l or r', depending on previous)
CLL.
ELL.

I use like, 2 look CLL, 4-5 look ELL
I'm about 1:30 with this, and it's a lot of fun on even bigger cubes.
This was originally LBL, but I realised there's no point inserting the corners, then doing step 2 twice, I can do one of the edges at the same time. So I'm about 15-20s slower than my normal 4x4 method, but the LL sucks for me with just simple comms.

#### cannon4747

##### Member
edges have no orientation, you ignore the step entirely.
step 4...

so its a bad version of k4?
its a way to occupy your time

i can see that my method is obviosly very inefficient and slow but one of the reasons for posting is so that i can gain more info about it to hopefully refine it.

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