# [Help Thread]4x4 Discussion and Help

#### xyzzy

##### Member
somehow, the centers swap positions after I'm finished pairing the edges. Maybe it's because I use Dw R' F R F' R U' R' for the last two edges? Not sure.
Going to guess you never solved your centres correctly to begin with.

Also is it viable to do centers first then edges?
Sort of, but to repeat what others have said, learning the Yau method is recommended. Yau is somewhat less efficient than (the most efficient variants of) reduction, but allows for much better piece visibility and lookahead.

#### EvanTheCuber

##### Member
I recently just bought a Mystic Aosu Gts 2m. Im 5-10 minutes. How do I get faster?

#### Spacey10

##### Member
I use Yau
Oh, I thought you were a beginner
If you use Yau, I don't think you would average this much

#### EvanTheCuber

##### Member
I suck at it lmao I mess up on the flip algorithm so much. My muscle memory makes me keep doing a J perm

#### Spacey10

##### Member
Try doing a solve on freeslice and tell me your time

ok

#### Etotheipi

##### Member
I would think at that level just practicing would get you far, I'm absolutely garbage at 4x4, and so shouldn't be giving advice, but practicing randomly got me down to 3:30 ish one time. (I'm now slower)

13 minutes

#### EvanTheCuber

##### Member
I know what happens. When I'm working on the 4 centers, I mess up the white edges and the centers get messed up. I think all I can do is practice

#### brododragon

##### Member
Learn 3-2-3. It's not required to be fast, but it helps.

#### EvanTheCuber

##### Member
Yea I saw J perms tutorial for 3-2-3 but it was tricky. I think I want to be sub 5 minutes before I learn that lol

#### EvanTheCuber

##### Member
Nice, just got a 6.09 solve 4x4. not 6.09 seconds. 6: 09

#### EvanTheCuber

##### Member
I guess my average is around 6 minutes

#### NevEr_QeyX

##### Member
Asking how to get faster when you are this slow is kinda dumb. At this point there are obvious things you need to do like practice, practice and uhhh oh right! Practice!

Jay Mcneill has a good video about this (I don't remember which one) but he outlined in the video that, when you are slow there is tons of time that can be made up by practice and familiarity with your method/algs.

So practice and don't ask for help anymore until you reach 1 minute which is where you might ACTUALLY need tips for improvement. Until then PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

#### Micah Morrison

##### Member
honestly just doing solves should get you to sub 2:00 pretty quick. Then you can learn Yau, and go from there.