2x2 OO Thread

[OtaMota]

Optimal 2x2x2 Cube

twoobytwoo.com

 

[OtaMota]

After having time to watch this, I will add my comments on it

As a 2x2 main, I am very happy with this development. Hopefully, it will allow 2x2 to progress as an event.

 

[Cubist-Guitar]

A couple tips that I would give for OO hunters (like me lol I found like 5 OO algs so far)

1. Two-tools.com is actually goated for this task. Unless you know full EG, TCLL, and LS, you will not be as good as two-tools. The only problems massive with two-tools are it’s limitations, which are…

2. Two-tools doesn’t have more advanced 2x2 alg sets, such as TEG, EGLS or CBL (not completely finished yet), so I will link the docs in the spoiler at the bottom of the page. Use the docs to find the alg you are looking for, and I highly recommend rotating the cube in twoobytwoo.com to match the pdf’s, as it makes finding the alg you are looking for so much easier

3. Don’t be afraid to use a little intuition. Figure out how to find good 3 move layers into an alg set, then you can find the alg. Hopefully, you can get good at figuring these things out, and start to be more confident in finding solutions

Spoiler: 2X2 ALG SHEETS TO HAVE LINKED

EG1- LS

docs.google.com

CBL

docs.google.com

TEG-1

docs.google.com

 

[OtaMota]

Renamed the thread to 2x2 OO thread so that we can have discussions on finding OO, and also celebrate milestones like % dones of OO and stuff

 

[Legomanz]

Once database updates, all 0-4 movers should have an OO. On to 5 movers atp

 

[Puzzle Maniac]

Already submitted two, great video by Antonie, and despite 2x2 not being one of my main events, I'm sure I'll spend a lot of time on the site.

 

[OtaMota]

Ksolve can be a useful resource in finding OOs if you know how to use it

https://cubing.net/ksolve.js/

 

[artless1der]

Optimal 2x2x2 Cube

twoobytwoo.com

do you tink they realize that actually says the same as
OHOH and/or UHOH
when pronounced out loud (esp in English!')

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

This is cool, I quite like it. I'll probably spend more time on this website than I can afford lol

There are two things which I think would be very valuable additions to the website:
1. Check if a submission actually solves the cube. I accidentally submitted something that wasn't correct, and it went through without problem.
2. Also show previous submissions which have not yet been approved, so you can be sure your work isn't overkill.
Both of these seem like they would limit the number of redundant submissions made on the website, making it so that the top 2x2-ers only have to check relevant submissions.

 

[cuber314159]

This is cool, I quite like it. I'll probably spend more time on this website than I can afford lol

There are two things which I think would be very valuable additions to the website:
1. Check if a submission actually solves the cube. I accidentally submitted something that wasn't correct, and it went through without problem.
2. Also show previous submissions which have not yet been approved, so you can be sure your work isn't overkill.
Both of these seem like they would limit the number of redundant submissions made on the website, making it so that the top 2x2-ers only have to check relevant submissions.

Yes, it's a bit of a worry that people could sabotage things or inexperienced cubers could submit something that is far from really being objectively optimal because they like the finger tricks themselves, as far as I know Gill Zussman is the only one who has developed automatic solution checking software, although I feel there probably are others

 

[abunickabhi]

I don't think OO for 154k unique 2x2 states is the way to go. It is wasting everyone's time.

anyway it won't receive the hate and flame and trolling that UF5 algset has been getting for the last 7 years.

I guess the people working on it are world class so it is inappropriate to dismiss their efforts.

I know OO won't work for a few years or ever for that matter,

Coz doing OO for UF5 was and is a lot of work.

 

[cubenerd74]

I had way too much fun messing around with this lol. I submitted 3 so far.

 

[CubeLite]

Am I that dumb that I can't find anything
Like I went through 10 random scrambles form my cstimer session, and couldn't find much, but on some of them, I was able to find a solution with a low move count as the scramble, and then saw that I just did the inverse of the scramble on a different orientation

 

[Kami]

I don't think OO for 154k unique 2x2 states is the way to go. It is wasting everyone's time.

anyway it won't receive the hate and flame and trolling that UF5 algset has been getting for the last 7 years.

I guess the people working on it are world class so it is inappropriate to dismiss their efforts.

I know OO won't work for a few years or ever for that matter,

Coz doing OO for UF5 was and is a lot of work.

one could say the same for five style

 

[Cubist-Guitar]

Let’s analyze this comment together, as it is probably the only negative response I have seen to this OO movement in general, and it raises a couple of valid points, which shouldn’t be ignored as legit concerns

I don't think OO for 154k unique 2x2 states is the way to go. It is wasting everyone's time.

This is an opening sentence to an argument of all time. The “everyone’s time” is an obvious hyperbole, but aside from that, this sentence is subjective, and I can’t say that this opinion is completely incorrect. One last thing is that clarification to what better “ways to go” is not given, which could definitely be clarified easily

anyway it won't receive the hate and flame and trolling that UF5 algset has been getting for the last 7 years.

This is the most interesting thing in this comment, as it shows and lays out @abunickabhi’s most powerful and personal argument; UF5. Throughout the rest of this comment, he references this from his personal experience to gen, plan, and attempt to make a method to solve 5 edges with one alg. For whatever reasons that may be, top BLDers mostly dismissed this method as a waste of time, as the algorithms are seen as too unfriendly for finger tricks, as well as the tens of thousands of algs needed to learn it.

I guess the people working on it are world class so it is inappropriate to dismiss their efforts.

I feel somewhat conflicted over this opinion in particular, as while I can somewhat acknowledge that top solvers have more representation in the cubing scene in general compared to regular and even good solvers, this type of phenomenon that @abunickabhi is referencing is very common is speed cubing, as method innovation is practically always led by the fastest solvers who have learned everything before them (that is just how solving progresses over time)

I know OO won't work for a few years or ever for that matter,
Coz doing OO for UF5 was and is a lot of work.

Finally, we come to @abunickabhi’s last point; because genning and organizing OO algs is a lot of work, it will never be viable. This is more of a prediction, so I would not like to delve to deeply in making a counter-prediction which could make me look a fool in a couple years. However, I will note that so far, the OO movement has what @abunickabhi has not had for whatever reasons; multiple people. And it’s not just two or three people; there are dozens of people who have been solution hunting, not just including world class solvers (lol me). Whether every single OO will learned by a single person is unclear, but if some -3 year old Chinese prodigy decided to start learning algs early, this resource will be there

 

[OtaMota]

I think there is an understandable misunderstanding concerning Antonie’s vid at this time.

The vid did not (intend to) suggest that somone should learn full OO. The purpose of the vid is so that people can help contribute to making a website where the optimal solutions to each scram is known. Whether or not Full OO is learnable is another topic that was not intended to be suggested.

 

[Cubist-Guitar]

Am I that dumb that I can't find anything
Like I went through 10 random scrambles form my cstimer session, and couldn't find much, but on some of them, I was able to find a solution with a low move count as the scramble, and then saw that I just did the inverse of the scramble on a different orientation

If you’ve checked using resources like two-tools and others and they confirm a similar solution, I don’t see why those wouldn’t count. It just shows you can do inverse moves (FMC moment)

 

[AhsanDaCuber125]

Wait, sorry if I sound dumb, but is OO a method? If so, is it easy to learn?

 

[Caleb Valenzuela]

Wait, sorry if I sound dumb, but is OO a method? If so, is it easy to learn?

Sounds like it, but i dont think it is easy to learn

 

[bldcuber314]

Wait, sorry if I sound dumb, but is OO a method? If so, is it easy to learn?

Sounds like it, but i dont think it is easy to learn

OO is a resource to compile an optimal(not by movecount, but how fast you can execute it) algorithm for every possible 2x2 state. If you want to learn it as a method, you would have to learn over 154k algs(a 2x2 has 3.6 million combinations but some of them are just the same state with different colours).