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[Help Thread] ZZ method / EOLine Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by ChaosWZ, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. ChaosWZ

    ChaosWZ Member

    45
    0
    Apr 14, 2009
    Please use this thread to post questions related to the ZZ method.

    Here is the ZZ/ZB method discussion thread.

    -*-*-*-*-

    I'm trying to get sub-20
    I really need to improve my efficiency to do that, so I figure you guys could see what I'm doing wrong here.
    I used to solve with Fridrich and it shows in my attempt at block building.

    Scramble: L' D2 R D2 R2 U D F2 L F2 D' R L' U2 B2 R' U' R' D U' F2 U2 L2 R' B'


    27 Seconds

    EOLine : B' D' L' D
    Left Side : R' U' R U' R' U' R U' L R' U2 (End of First 2x2x1) L R' U' R U R U R2 U L
    Right Side : U' R' U' R U2 R' U R2
    WV : U R' U R U' R' U R U R' U' R U R' U R
    PLL : U' R U R' y' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2 U

    Total : 64 moves, horrible for an efficient method I know.

    I still have trouble with EO line, that one was just absurdly easy and my block building is really inefficient.

    Any tips anyone?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
  2. mDiPalma

    mDiPalma Member

    1,519
    303
    Jul 12, 2011
    B' D' L' D - your eoline
    U' R L U2 R' U' R' - right square
    L' U2 L2 U' L U' L' U' L' - left block
    U' R' U' R U2 R' U' R - right block
    U R U2 R' U' R U' R' - OLL
    R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R U' R U R' F' U' - PLL
    ~50 moves, no rotations

    try and use non-fridrich-style-pairs.

    also, coll >> wv.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  3. ChaosWZ

    ChaosWZ Member

    45
    0
    Apr 14, 2009
    Thanks so much
     
  4. a small kitten

    a small kitten Member

    1,627
    15
    Jul 21, 2008
    WCA:
    2010YUPH01
    YouTube:
    asmallkitten
    This scramble is a bit lol. Got an 8.11 with the following solution:

    B' D' L' D
    R' U2 R2 U L' U2 L'
    U L' U2 L U L' U' L
    U R U2 R' U R U2 R U2 R' U R
    R U R' U R U2 R'
    U R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2
     
  5. mDiPalma

    mDiPalma Member

    1,519
    303
    Jul 12, 2011
    ChaosWZ: 13 U, 11 U', 2 U2
    mdipalma: 3 U, 14 U', 4 U2
    a small kitten: 11 U, 4 U', 6 U2

    i just noticed how much "style" has to do with it.

    plus i just realised i could have cut off 7 moves in my OLL+PLL because there is a HUGE cancellation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  6. a small kitten

    a small kitten Member

    1,627
    15
    Jul 21, 2008
    WCA:
    2010YUPH01
    YouTube:
    asmallkitten
    What do you mean when you say "style"?

    There could have been a small cancellation in my solve too but I didn't recognize it :S
     
  7. ChaosWZ

    ChaosWZ Member

    45
    0
    Apr 14, 2009
    It's from cube timer. And solving something 4 times faster than me makes me feel bad =/ I know I'm not good but this is ridiculous!
     
  8. mDiPalma

    mDiPalma Member

    1,519
    303
    Jul 12, 2011
    by style, i mean that we all saw different solutions from the same scramble+eoline

    subconsciously, i do inserts that use U' much more often (evident from all my reconstructions)
    it seems you may have a slight bias for U.
    and chaoswz is either still developing his style or treats U + U' more equally than us.
     
  9. ChaosWZ

    ChaosWZ Member

    45
    0
    Apr 14, 2009
    I definitely see no difference between U' and U, it's a flick with my right index or my left index. It's hardly any different. I tend to refrain from using U2 because I'm slow doing U'2 when I can't always use U2 efficiently.
     
  10. a small kitten

    a small kitten Member

    1,627
    15
    Jul 21, 2008
    WCA:
    2010YUPH01
    YouTube:
    asmallkitten
    I think sample size may be too small.
     
  11. mDiPalma

    mDiPalma Member

    1,519
    303
    Jul 12, 2011
    lol, maybe the sample size is too small for you two, but i definitely use U' more than U

    also there is the fact that chaoswz went for the back left square with a d-edge pair,
    you went for the same square with an f2l pair,
    and i went for a different square entirely.

    this variation could be caused by our color scheme, the way we hold the cube, the lighting, or (more likely) our styles/habits/tendencies

    obviously most styles will yield the same approximate movecount in the end, but maybe different styles may help in other ways.

    maybe, for example, having an equal number of (U + L) and (U' + L') and minimal (U2 + L2) would be the best for OH (with z rotations)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  12. a small kitten

    a small kitten Member

    1,627
    15
    Jul 21, 2008
    WCA:
    2010YUPH01
    YouTube:
    asmallkitten
    Actually, your preference for U or U' in OH depends on which hand you use. If you use left, it is much easier to do U'. U2/U'2 aren't very good.

    I hate U so much that I learn PLLs from multiple angles so I don't have to AUF with U.
     
  13. Phantom777

    Phantom777 Member

    11
    0
    Jun 27, 2015
    WCA:
    2015BELT03
    I can't understand the Edge Orientation+Line on ZZ

    I am Sub30 with CFOP method , and my AO5 is 27.79 . With CFOP I'm stuck . I need another method to make a speedsolve . ZZ is the closest method to CFOP speed . I do not understand the first step of ZZ , the orientation of edges. I do not understand when you say : see stickers U, D , whatever.

    It's the part I do not understand . I do not understand the part of orienting edges when there are 2 , 4 or 6 misoriented edges. Is there a simpler way to understand that?
     
  14. NeilH

    NeilH Member

    418
    0
    Mar 3, 2015
    Tatooine
    WCA:
    2015HEMN01
    YouTube:
    Neil Hemnani
    Watch asmallkitten's tutorial on Youtube
     
  15. AlphaSheep

    AlphaSheep Member

    1,077
    608
    Nov 11, 2014
    Gauteng, South Africa
    WCA:
    2014GRAY03
    I was averaging about 2 minutes when I learned ZZ. I didn't find it easy to understand at first either, and it's difficult to explain except in terms of the rules that asmallkitten gives in his videos, or the ones on Conrad Rider's website.

    When I was learning ZZ and trying to understand EO, I just scrambled the cube, counted bad edges, and then check my count by solving F2L using only <RULD> moves, without bothering to do EO first. By doing that, you land up with all of the edges that were bad being flipped in place, while the ones that were good will be solved. It's easier to check that you were counting correctly that way. Write down which edges were bad, and check that you got them right. It's best to use computer generated scrambles, because then you can do the same scramble and see where you went wrong.

    In terms of actually doing the EO step, I found it was easier to just flip 2 or 4 edges at a time at first, rather than trying to plan a short and efficient EO. Once you've got a solid grasp of EO, then you can read Conrad Rider's EO strategy, and work on getting efficient.


    Also, I think it's worth pointing out that you'll get stuck at certain times no matter what method you use. In my experience, the only way to get past it is to just keep practising.
     
  16. 00

    00 Member

    37
    3
    May 1, 2015
    oriented = solvable with R, U, L and D moves.
     
  17. Devin Palacios

    Devin Palacios Member

    15
    0
    May 20, 2015
    Zz method eoline help

    I have been using zz method for a while now and I have been having some problems with the eoline. With the eoline presolved I get times anywhere from 19 to 28 seconds (depending on how f2l goes) without the eoline it adds about 5-15 seconds
    I was wondering if anyone can help. the scramble below will be done wca orientation and the moves in parentheses are my eoline

    U F B' L2 B L F2 D' F2 U2 L D2 L R2 F2 D L2 R2 D' B2 U R' D' L' D' (z2 U' L2 B U' R2 D')

    Any tips?
     
  18. MM99

    MM99 Member

    154
    0
    Aug 3, 2013
    That solution is fine Id do something similar except with blue front yellow top... You should post a few more scrambles and more difficult ones as well one Example isn't enough to help you
     
  19. So why does that EOline take you 5-15 seconds to solve?
    Did you plan it in inspection? If so, that is exceptional you have a good EOline and it sounds like you have a TPS problem.
    If you aren't planning that in inspection, that is your problem and you need to start practicing that asap.

    Example of an EOline I would do and it took me about 10 seconds to plan: z2 U D2 R2' F D' B2
     
  20. Devin Palacios

    Devin Palacios Member

    15
    0
    May 20, 2015
    I am planning during inspection I know exactly what I need to do but I just forget it all when I start. It takes me about 5-10 seconds to plan the eoline depending on the number of bad edges.
     

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