# [Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by koreancuber, Apr 29, 2010.

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1. ### TheNextFeliksMember

Oct 27, 2012
KCKS
WCA:
2013POPE01
TheNextFeliks
Wut do you mean "wut"?

288
1
Mar 19, 2011
OLLCP?

3. ### TheNextFeliksMember

Oct 27, 2012
KCKS
WCA:
2013POPE01
TheNextFeliks
No. ZZ. COLL covers all possible ollcp cases.

Everyone stop guessing! You won't get it.

4. ### MWilsonMember

288
1
Mar 19, 2011

Mysterious. Sounds like it's either a LL revolution, or sevening.

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2016
5. ### aznanimedudeMember

666
0
Feb 23, 2012
i'm not even close to sevening QQ

6. ### uvafanMember

995
0
Apr 9, 2012
WCA:
2012LIFL01
uvafan173
Brest posted a reconstruction of my 12.64 avg5 in the Youtube Winter Competition Thread, so you can add those splits to the old spreadsheet if you would like.

7. ### aznanimedudeMember

666
0
Feb 23, 2012
3.5/7, halfway to completion and i'm back to the kinds of times i had before i started, w00t that's kind of an accomplishment i suppose

8. ### coldsun0630Member

75
2
Dec 9, 2012
South Korea
coldsun0630
I just made a method. It is a ZZ variant.
orienting edges in first two layer → 2x2x3 on back → 1x2x2 on FL side with orienting edges → Last F2L with OLLskip → PLL

Here is an example

Scramble: F2 D2 L' F2 R' F2 L' U2 R F2 U' L2 F R F L U2 B2 U B R2 (21f)
x2 // Inspection (0f) [0/50]
L' F D' R2 D F // F2EOCross (6f) [6/50]
D' F2 D' R U' R' U' L2 D2 R' // Back 2x3x3 (10f) [16/50]
y' R U' R' U R' F R F' // ZBF2L (8f) [24/50]
R U' R2 U' R' U R' U' R' U2 R' // F2LL (11f) [35/50]
U' L' U' L U L F' L2 U L U L' U' L F // PLL (15f) [50/50]
alg.garron.us

Do you think it is good method?

Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
9. ### uvafanMember

995
0
Apr 9, 2012
WCA:
2012LIFL01
uvafan173
or you could just use petrus - it's basically exactly the same except for edge orientation at the start.

10. ### Petro LeumMember

762
12
May 3, 2012
Germany
WCA:
2012KALH01
cool, now stop making progress posts if you wont explain what you mean anyways.

EDIT: btw, after zeroing those jokes are not funny anymore

Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
11. ### immortalchaos29Member

340
0
Nov 10, 2011
Provo, UT
WCA:
2013LLEW01
I just finished watching the Kitten's youtube tutorials on the ZZ method and I am dying to start. Planning on being sub 30 within a couple weeks (current avg 18 cfop). Is there any specific anyone can give me about the method you wish you knew when you started?

12. ### cubingawsumnessMember

458
0
Jan 16, 2012
California
WCA:
2012CHIE01
Well I knew this but EOLine is hard at first, and just practice it a lot. Give yourself as much time for inspection as you need to plan stuff out. Try being efficient in ZZF2L and not just using all CFOP F2L-like techniques. Have fun!

13. ### nickvu2Member

278
0
Sep 5, 2009
Seattle
WCA:
2007VUNI01
If you were able to speedsolve that solution I'd be really impressed.

Seems easier (and faster) to just do full EO rather than partial EO, not to mention you have to also finish EO in a later step. Overall, is appears harder and without any advantage.

That said, I'm excited that you're exploring...it's what moves cubing forward =)

14. ### ZeldaMember

49
0
Feb 1, 2013
SteveTheCube
Can anyone tell me the difference between ZZ and ZB? I can't seem to find anything.

15. ### irontwigMember

Apr 6, 2009
Sweden
WCA:
2010JERN01
jernqvist
ZZ: Orient all edges and solve DF and DB, F2L, LL
ZB: Solve F2L minus one slot however you want, finish F2L and orient the remaining edges at the same time, LL

49
0
Feb 1, 2013
SteveTheCube
17. ### uvafanMember

995
0
Apr 9, 2012
WCA:
2012LIFL01
uvafan173
Go to part 1 of the tutorial and start from there - I believe edge orientation detection tutorial is part 2.

18. ### ZeldaMember

49
0
Feb 1, 2013
SteveTheCube
No, I understand that and so on, watched it a few times, what I don't get is that specific case, why is that edge bad? Just for the record rules are (copied from vid):

19. ### uvafanMember

995
0
Apr 9, 2012
WCA:
2012LIFL01
uvafan173
Look for all the rule checks. And he says a lot of edges are bad in that video probably, if you're really confused tell us the colors and where the colors are.

20. ### aznanimedudeMember

666
0
Feb 23, 2012
the way i learned bad vs good edges was from cride5 zz page

spoken from the orientation of blue/green front and then white/yellow top and bottom the bad vs good is like this

in the edge on U and D, and the middle eges on F and B, if the edge color is red or orange, it's bad, if it's blue or green, it's bad if the other color on the edge is yellow or white

but yeah for me, i know that edge is bad because the color on U face is red, by those rules you listed, it's the last aprt of rule 3, where r/o on l/r is good, since red is on the front edge, it's bad, not good