• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 30,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Wiki Discussion Thread

pjk

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,192
Likes
425
WCA
2007KELL02
YouTube
pjkcards
#81
A couple updates:
I'm trying to filter out all the issues with the current setup:
1) Spam. I've implemented quite a few anti-spam hacks, but bots are still getting in. I'm working on this.
2) Login issues. Keep in mind that your speedsolving.com login is NOT your wiki login. The wiki is a separate site so you'll need a separate account. However, since the databases were merged at one point, if you never had activated your account, it will say that that your username already exists, and if you try to recover your password it will say there is no email with your account. If this happens, please send me a PM with your wiki username and I will reset your password for you (and then you can add your email address).

Lastly, Macky has been working hard to make the wiki better. If you have something of value to add, please feel free to help out. There is an entire section on the lower right of the wiki homepage on "How to Contribute".
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
248
Likes
5
YouTube
IAssemble
#82
A couple updates:
I'm trying to filter out all the issues with the current setup:
1) Spam. I've implemented quite a few anti-spam hacks, but bots are still getting in. I'm working on this. Crazy how bots have got past CAPTCHA.
2) Login issues. Keep in mind that your speedsolving.com login is NOT your wiki login. The wiki is a separate site so you'll need a separate account. However, since the databases were merged at one point, if you never had activated your account, it will say that that your username already exists, and if you try to recover your password it will say there is no email with your account. If this happens, please post your wiki username here in this thread and I will remove your wiki account so you can create a new one with your same username.

Lastly, Macky has been working hard to make the wiki better. If you have something of value to add, please feel free to help out. There is an entire section on the lower right of the wiki homepage on "How to Contribute".
Please remove my wiki account "IAssemble" so that I can create a new one with the same username. Thanks.
 

ThomasJE

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
1,792
Likes
5
Location
England
YouTube
ThomasJECubing
#85
2) Login issues. Keep in mind that your speedsolving.com login is NOT your wiki login. The wiki is a separate site so you'll need a separate account. However, since the databases were merged at one point, if you never had activated your account, it will say that that your username already exists, and if you try to recover your password it will say there is no email with your account. If this happens, please send me a PM with your wiki username and I will reset your password for you (and then you can add your email address).

Lastly, Macky has been working hard to make the wiki better. If you have something of value to add, please feel free to help out. There is an entire section on the lower right of the wiki homepage on "How to Contribute".
Could you please remove the wiki account named 'ThomasJE', so I can create a new account with the same username. I'm planning on clearing up the 4x4x4 Parity Algorithms page and making it look nicer.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
858
Likes
24
Location
New Orleans, LA
YouTube
4EverTrying
#88
Thanks.

I've cleared up the 4x4x4 Parity Algorithms page. If there are any mistakes, or anything that may need adding, then feel
I appreciated your effort, but I did a major cleanup which I thought you were saying you did. For all of the algorithms, I omitted duplicates. Only for the impure algorithms, I omitted some mirrors and inverses. If someone wants to add them back, feel free to do so (it's just a couple of algs to add back in). But PLEASE, put the mirror, inverse, cube rotations, or any other variation of the same algorithms underneath the original algorithm. As you guys will see, I put (v2), (v3), etc. (which stands for version 1, version 2, etc.) next to different variations of the same algorithms and kept all variations TOGETHER.

Also, I didn't just delete all of the algorithms qqwref posted at the very end of the article. I just deleted duplicates. Well a few variations of that last list I deleted because they are still the same algorithms and are no faster or preserve more than the algs there. If we wanted to list all variations, the number of algorithms would be in the thousands! So I tried to keep it as brief as possible, but by no means did I delete that many of them.

I think I covered every item qqwref initially mentioned. However, some feel that the OLL Parity algorithms look better in SiGN notation. If that's the case, then please delete the WCA Notation copy and replace it with SiGN Notation. There is no need to have duplicates!

There are very few double parity algorithms (impure ones for reduction). We should add more of those for sure.

I deleted multiple duplicates of Frédérick Badie's algorithm, as I didn't see why there had to be 8-10 different variations (of those 10 or so, maybe more, some were duplicates).

I was going to add more ELL cases, but maybe another day. Anyone can add more ELL cases (meaning the two adjacent edge cases and unoriented PLL Parity, etc.)

I hope everyone likes my edit, and that we can move to the next step in perfecting this page.
 
Last edited:

ThomasJE

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
1,792
Likes
5
Location
England
YouTube
ThomasJECubing
#89
Wow, that looks good! That's how I kind of wanted the page to be like. Also, why do we need algorithms that don't preserve F2L? Parity is usually peformed after F2L, so algs that mess up F2L are useless really.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
858
Likes
24
Location
New Orleans, LA
YouTube
4EverTrying
#90
Wow, that looks good! That's how I kind of wanted the page to be like.
Thanks.
Also, why do we need algorithms that don't preserve F2L? Parity is usually peformed after F2L, so algs that mess up F2L are useless really.
Well, I don't see any real use in algs that don't preserve F2L either, but the algorithms I found in the past like this (and even more importantly, cuBerBruce's algs which are currently posted on that page, well, except for three which I found) are, I guess, just interesting. I mean, the 15 BQTM algs of cuBerBruce's are pretty neat. Besides some individuals using, say, the second (17,13) algorithm for Petrus, I guess it's important to have these algorithms posted in the wiki because it gives everyone appreciation for the standard algorithms which preserve more and are only a few moves longer. I'm sure you have seen the parity threads that have gone on, at least in the time I've been a member. On more than one occasion, people were wondering if there is a possibility of shorter parity algorithms to exist. I mean, we don't have an official cube explorer for the 4x4x4. cuBerBruce has done some impressive work to get around this, and I of course have done so on many levels myself (which I feel privileged to do for my fellow cubers, and I'm sure cuBerBruce is very proud of the accomplishments of his brute force searches). I guess at the end of the day, we (and whoever does constructive writing and/or makes contributions which make it on this page in the wiki) should hope that we provide speed optimal and move optimal solutions of all kinds so that everyone's needs will be met, whether it is for practical use in solving, curiosity, a look into the theory, or just to have a deep appreciation for the parity algorithms we have.

And just as an example (not that you mentioned algorithms for the checkboard pattern 4-cycle), but...

Even an algorithm like [f2 u' r2 Uw2 S': r] has its purpose (besides being the optimal algorithm BHTM and BQTM, we can still learn from it). As I have posted on the comments of a youtube video, if anyone wants to argue that parity algorithms are unintuitive, they should study this algorithm[f2 u' r2 Uw2 S': r] and reconsider. It doesn't matter how many moves it takes you to get slice r to look like it does after f2 u' r2 Uw2 S', as long as you can make slice r look like that, then you're in business. Simply observing how same color centers swap with each other when the extra quarter turn is finally ready to be executed is such a simple concept, it's beautiful. When I started cubing, and even after I found optimal solutions to various cases in different move metrics, I was always thinking to myself, "there must be a simpler concept of how to handle parity, even more so than my methods." I didn't find this algorithm right away (heck, I just found that early this year!), but the idea behind the algorithm is so simple that, once a cuber sees it and understands its one message, then the fear of parity should vanish forever. Easy to understand parity algorithms for, the pure edge flip, for example, clearly do exist: [f2 u' r2 Uw2 S': r] [Rw: [U' f' U, B2] ]. Sure we can just do a quarter turn and then solve back everything, but that's not really looking at the problem head on (at least, not to me. That's just doing something to bypass the "big problem" of having deal with the consequences of an odd permutation in the inner layers. That approach is like saying, "since my computer program has a bug, I'm going to start over," instead of trying to debug the code and actually learn how to prevent mistakes like that from happening again).
 
Last edited:

ThomasJE

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
1,792
Likes
5
Location
England
YouTube
ThomasJECubing
#92
I've done an overhaul on the VOP Method page. I've made the page neater and added a lot more algs. I think all that needs adding is a link to Guimond OLL algs that DON'T affect the V. If there is anything else that needs to be added/changed, then feel free to edit, but please keep the general layout the same.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
69
Likes
0
Location
Washington state
#93
I just wanted to mention that you must not mix up fact and opinion. I saw on the v-cube 5 page somthing like
"the v-cube 5 is better than shoungshou 5x5 which has bad outer layers". I fixed it but I hope there aren't many more things like that.
 

pjk

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,192
Likes
425
WCA
2007KELL02
YouTube
pjkcards
#94
Just wanted to update the guys working on the wiki: I'm trying to combat this spam anyway I can. I have a few ideas to try since they are clearly getting around the CAPTCHA, but I have a huge plate atm and it will take be a couple weeks to work on this. For now, blocking and deleting posts when they come up is the best that can be done. Thanks for working on this.
 

pjk

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,192
Likes
425
WCA
2007KELL02
YouTube
pjkcards
#95
I just got rid of the CAPTCHA because bots are clearly getting around that, and implemented a more difficult one for new account creation (try to create an account to test it). We'll see if this helps. Thanks guys for moderating that and keeping it clean.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
858
Likes
24
Location
New Orleans, LA
YouTube
4EverTrying
#96
After many hours of work, I have finished my edits for the 4x4x4 parity algorithms page, and the 3x3x3 PLL page.

The 4x4x4 parity algorithms page should be explanatory. Although I have added quite a few new categories of algorithms, I'm sure there are some more which people can add. More external links perhaps?

For the 3x3x3 PLL page (if you ever intend on editing the 2-cycle PLLs, please read...I spent a lot of time organizing the chaos from before!),
I have sorted all previously existing 2-cycle algorithms in the following manner.

-I have numbered algorithms based on which algorithms were originally listed first. Their directly related algorithms (which might have been in the middle or even at the end of the list) have been grouped with them.

-If it wasn't in the wiki already, I have added versions of the previously existing algorithms which have no wide turns or cube rotations from every single algorithm listed in the wiki and made that the first version of related algorithms. That is, the algorithms are grouped into groups which shows which algorithms are directly related at some level or another. Advantages: Although not all of the first versions in the algorithm groups are fast, it is ideal to keep them so that people will not make the mistake of accidentally adding duplicates. In addition, people might like to add more versions to a group of algorithms from the first (non speed optimized version alg.). IN ADDITION, it's easy to link them to their decompositions.

-Speaking of decompositions, I have added commutator/conjugate decompositions of the first version alg in each group because they might give insight on how these parity algorithms can be constructed. For most even permutation algorithms, such decompositions might not be so straight forward (because it was actually easy for me to at least pinpoint --in the majority of the algorithms--where the extra quarter turn actually is executed). I will leave the decompositions of the rest of the PLL cases to others in the future.

-The first version of the algorithms is the only version which is guaranteed to solve a cube completely after executing the alg. to the corresponding case image (of course, the decompositions are decompositions of the first algorithms, so they too are guaranteed to completely solve the cube...). The rest of the versions (v2,v3,..etc.) may need U, U', U2, y, y', or y2 (or a combination of U and y) to restore the cube to the starting position and have the cube solved entirely. But I noticed this was done before for many of the algorithms, so I made an effort to omit all last U turns or y cube rotations to shorten the algs. Again, the first versions and their decompositions do not have the last U turns omitted (if the last turn involves U).

-For the symmetric J, N, and R Perms, all algorithms are now evenly distributed among each. If, for example, Ja had some additional algorithms (or additional forms of the same algorithms) which Jb didn't have, then I added those algorithms to Jb. In addition, the algorithms from Ja directly correspond to that of Jb, Na to Nb, and Ra to Rb.

How to keep these algorithms organized:
- If you add an algorithm to Ja, please add its mirror to Jb, even if you don't think it's as fast. (Same for Na and Nb). If you add an algorithm to Rb, please add its mirror + y2 cube rotation to Ra.
- If you add an entirely new algorithm to one of the 2-cycle PLL cases, do not put it in an existing group: make a separate group.

For those who wish to move algorithms around.
You may move the algorithms for a 2-cycle PLL case around in any order you wish. Just make sure that you do not exchange algorithms between groups! Keep all algorithms in their groups so that people in the future will be able to know which algorithms are directly related/only optimized differently. You may move the entire group around, though.

However, if you do move around algorithms or groups, renumber everything please. Also, if you affect Ja, Na, Ra, also affect Jb, Nb, and Ra in the same manner, so that the only main difference between algorithms in either symmetry is a mirror (mirror + y2 cube rotation for Ra between Rb...that is, unless the case image for Rb or Ra is rotated to be just the mirror of the other).
The main reasons I did this organization was to help reduce the amount of duplicate algorithms added in the future, show how few "unique" algorithms that are in the wiki for most of the 2-cycle PLLs (maybe someone can add more unique algorithms from other sources easier now and be sure that they are not duplicates of what's already in the wiki), illustrate how 3x3x3 parity algorithms can be represented using commutators and conjugates, and to make the number of algorithms under Ja equal the number of algorithms under Jb, Na to Nb, and Ra to Rb (in doing so, there is actually more variety for future cubers to try).

EDIT:

Also, I wasn't lazy. I double checked all links, algorithms, and decompositions, and all are correct. You can double check to see if the algorithms I claim to be directly related (I put them in the same group) if you wish. But I have double checked that as well.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
7,830
Likes
33
Location
a <script> tag near you
WCA
2006GOTT01
YouTube
qqwref2
Something is broken on the wiki. I can't upload some images. I am getting errors like this:

Could not create directory "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/c/c0".

Also, there are two huge (>2MB) images uploaded by Pestvic that can't be deleted because they throw similar errors.
 
Top