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VHLS vs Full - OLL

VHLS or OLL

  • OLL

    Votes: 21 48.8%
  • VHLS

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Become SUB - 20 First

    Votes: 17 39.5%

  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
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Thread starter #1
I got to know about VHLS from the channel 'J Perm' On YouTube and concluded that its COOL. I am learning full PLL now (Just left with G and N Perms) and next step is full OLL, But I am kinda confused now between VHLS and Full - OLL for which one should I choose.

By the way, I am currently Sub-30.
 
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#2
I would honestly practice your F2L as that is the most important part of a solve. Get sub 20 (in my opinion) at least! Then learn OLL, then mabye a cool subset.
 
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#5
Crazy Cube I am LITERALLY in the same position as you are XD. I am sub 30, know 2 look OLL and have just N and G Perms left to learn. I'm learning VHLS because there are only 20 algs, but you probably know that. 20 < 57 - ones you already know, so that's my logic.
 
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Thread starter #6
So, I will give you a video of my solve, and tell me more on 'How to improve' if it isn't the time for VHLS or OLL. =)


Scramble : B2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 U R2 B2 U R B' L' U B L2 R' B' D2
 
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Thread starter #8
Crazy Cube I am LITERALLY in the same position as you are XD. I am sub 30, know 2 look OLL and have just N and G Perms left to learn. I'm learning VHLS because there are only 20 algs, but you probably know that. 20 < 57 - ones you already know, so that's my logic.
Even I am confused because of that Logic! XD
 
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#9
In terms of speed, the ranking is basically (from worst to best):

2-look OLL only
VHLS + 2-look OLL (*)
full OLL
partial edge control + OLL (**)
partial edge control + OLL + COLL
VLS/HLS
VHLS + ZBLL
ZBLS + ZBLL
partial LL control + 1LLL

There's no consensus on the exact ordering, but this is roughly accurate. This is also roughly sorted in terms of how much new stuff you have to learn (from literally nothing at the top to thousands of algs at the bottom). If you're only going to learn one of VHLS and full OLL, the former would be easier to learn, but the latter has a larger eventual benefit. (Also! VHLS is often quoted as having only 16 cases, but you need to know how to insert the last slot from any angle, which brings it up to 64 cases in total. Some of the algs are just mirrors, but (for the back slots, in particular) it can be pretty awkward to do RBU inserts and you need to learn separate algs for those.)

* I still mention "2-look" here because you might have a skip on your last slot (or use a "nonstandard" insert) and end up with 2 or 4 flipped edges. In practice, it's "mostly 1-look, but occasionally 2-look".

** By partial edge control, I mean you don't always force edges to be oriented, but more like using sledges to avoid dot OLLs and such.

So, I will give you a video of my solve, and tell me more on 'How to improve' if it isn't the time for VHLS or OLL. =)


Scramble : B2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 U R2 B2 U R B' L' U B L2 R' B' D2
/* Scramble */
B2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 U R2 B2 U R B' L' U B L2 R' B' D2

/* Solve */
x2 // insp
x U' x' D R' U L' L' x2 x' U' x' D R' D // xcross
y U L' U L U2' y U' L' U L // second slot
U' y' U L' U L y' L U L' // third slot
R U' R' (z x' y2' x z) U R U' R' // last slot
U' U' F R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // EO
F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // CO
(x' y x z) U2' (y z') z R' U R' d' l' U' (R2 x') U' R' U l' U R U // PLL (V perm)

// View at alg.cubing.net

Or, well, before you start thinking about whether to learn VHLS or full OLL, maybe you should learn better 2-look OLL algs first and how to do F/F' moves without rotating. Also, try to minimise rotations, work on F2L lookahead, [insert more standard advice here], etc.
 
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Thread starter #10
In terms of speed, the ranking is basically (from worst to best):

2-look OLL only
VHLS + 2-look OLL (*)
full OLL
partial edge control + OLL (**)
partial edge control + OLL + COLL
VLS/HLS
VHLS + ZBLL
ZBLS + ZBLL
partial LL control + 1LLL

There's no consensus on the exact ordering, but this is roughly accurate. This is also roughly sorted in terms of how much new stuff you have to learn (from literally nothing at the top to thousands of algs at the bottom). If you're only going to learn one of VHLS and full OLL, the former would be easier to learn, but the latter has a larger eventual benefit. (Also! VHLS is often quoted as having only 16 cases, but you need to know how to insert the last slot from any angle, which brings it up to 64 cases in total. Some of the algs are just mirrors, but (for the back slots, in particular) it can be pretty awkward to do RBU inserts and you need to learn separate algs for those.)

* I still mention "2-look" here because you might have a skip on your last slot (or use a "nonstandard" insert) and end up with 2 or 4 flipped edges. In practice, it's "mostly 1-look, but occasionally 2-look".

** By partial edge control, I mean you don't always force edges to be oriented, but more like using sledges to avoid dot OLLs and such.


/* Scramble */
B2 F2 L2 F2 U R2 U R2 B2 U R B' L' U B L2 R' B' D2

/* Solve */
x2 // insp
x U' x' D R' U L' L' x2 x' U' x' D R' D // xcross
y U L' U L U2' y U' L' U L // second slot
U' y' U L' U L y' L U L' // third slot
R U' R' (z x' y2' x z) U R U' R' // last slot
U' U' F R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // EO
F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // CO
(x' y x z) U2' (y z') z R' U R' d' l' U' (R2 x') U' R' U l' U R U // PLL (V perm)

// View at alg.cubing.net

Or, well, before you start thinking about whether to learn VHLS or full OLL, maybe you should learn better 2-look OLL algs first and how to do F/F' moves without rotating. Also, try to minimise rotations, work on F2L lookahead, [insert more standard advice here], etc.
Okay, so this is pretty helpful, but the thing I find difficult is Avoiding Rotations.

I've tried to avoid unnecessary cube rotations, but that always leads to unnecessary moves, adding up more time. So, Can you give me something that can help this problem?

(By The Way, Your Reconstruction is pretty good.)
 
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#11
I've tried to avoid unnecessary cube rotations, but that always leads to unnecessary moves, adding up more time. So, Can you give me something that can help this problem?
Avoid unnecessary cube rotations, but don't avoid necessary rotations. General rule of thumb: If the edge can be solved with only RUL moves, don't rotate. If the edge is on the top layer and can't be solved with RUL, rotate then solve. If the edge is the middle layer and can't be solved with RUL, pull it out and form the pair simultaneously, then rotate and insert. (There are exceptions to this rule, such as when both the corner and the edge are misslotted, or with F2L algs like F R U2 R' F', but you shouldn't concern yourself with these.)

It's possible to get rid of rotations entirely, but keep in mind that while having to rotate is slower than not having to rotate, having to rotate is faster than not rotating and wasting 4+ moves on weird rotationless inserts. Let's just run through the reconstruction real quick.

x2 // inspection
F' D R' U L2' F' D R' D // xcross
You need to do F moves with proper fingertricks, like I've already mentioned. 9 moves for an xcross is nice, but I don't know if you planned it out or if you just got lucky.

y U L' U L U2' y U' L' U L // second slot
The rotation at the start is unnecessary. You can form the pair with U R U R', then rotate and insert with d L U L'. Alternatively, you can also form the pair with U F' U F, which is the same as what you did but from a different angle. This avoids the rotation altogether, but most people find the F' U F trigger awkward to execute and would prefer the U R U' R' solution instead.

U' y' U L' U L y' L U L' // third slot
Okay, this F2L case (for orange-green) is just kinda bad because you need to either do a long alg, do a weird alg, or rotate twice. (Unless you have a free adjacent slot; here the free slot is opposite, which is less useful.) If you must do orange-green, you can exploit the free BL slot by using an L move to split the pieces apart, then do a standard insert and restore the BL slot: L U R U R2' F R F' L'.

R U' R' U R U' R' // last slot
No rotations here, which is good. Also, this is actually one of the nice VHLS cases: R U' R' U F' L' U' L F.

U2' F R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // EO
F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // CO
Bad algs + unnecessary rotations before the F' moves. Try F U R U' R' F' and R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R' for these cases instead.

(x' y x z) U2' y R' U R' d' l' U' (R2 x') U' R' U l' U R U // PLL (V perm)
One long rotation to scan all the faces to recognise PLL, one move to align the blocks, and one more rotation to bring it the angle where you execute the PLL alg. Don't do this. I'm not going to ask you to learn 2-sided PLL recognition straight away; if you need to look at other sides to recognise the PLL, that's fine, but use U and U' flicks to bring other faces into view, rather than rotating. Likewise, use U moves rather than rotations to bring the case to the correct angle. (There are exceptions to this, but like what I mentioned for rotating in F2L, if you have to ask what those exceptions are, you're not ready to use them.)
 
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Thread starter #12
Avoid unnecessary cube rotations, but don't avoid necessary rotations. General rule of thumb: If the edge can be solved with only RUL moves, don't rotate. If the edge is on the top layer and can't be solved with RUL, rotate then solve. If the edge is the middle layer and can't be solved with RUL, pull it out and form the pair simultaneously, then rotate and insert. (There are exceptions to this rule, such as when both the corner and the edge are misslotted, or with F2L algs like F R U2 R' F', but you shouldn't concern yourself with these.)

It's possible to get rid of rotations entirely, but keep in mind that while having to rotate is slower than not having to rotate, having to rotate is faster than not rotating and wasting 4+ moves on weird rotationless inserts. Let's just run through the reconstruction real quick.

x2 // inspection
F' D R' U L2' F' D R' D // xcross
You need to do F moves with proper fingertricks, like I've already mentioned. 9 moves for an xcross is nice, but I don't know if you planned it out or if you just got lucky.

y U L' U L U2' y U' L' U L // second slot
The rotation at the start is unnecessary. You can form the pair with U R U R', then rotate and insert with d L U L'. Alternatively, you can also form the pair with U F' U F, which is the same as what you did but from a different angle. This avoids the rotation altogether, but most people find the F' U F trigger awkward to execute and would prefer the U R U' R' solution instead.

U' y' U L' U L y' L U L' // third slot
Okay, this F2L case (for orange-green) is just kinda bad because you need to either do a long alg, do a weird alg, or rotate twice. (Unless you have a free adjacent slot; here the free slot is opposite, which is less useful.) If you must do orange-green, you can exploit the free BL slot by using an L move to split the pieces apart, then do a standard insert and restore the BL slot: L U R U R2' F R F' L'.

R U' R' U R U' R' // last slot
No rotations here, which is good. Also, this is actually one of the nice VHLS cases: R U' R' U F' L' U' L F.

U2' F R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // EO
F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' y L' // CO
Bad algs + unnecessary rotations before the F' moves. Try F U R U' R' F' and R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R' for these cases instead.

(x' y x z) U2' y R' U R' d' l' U' (R2 x') U' R' U l' U R U // PLL (V perm)
One long rotation to scan all the faces to recognise PLL, one move to align the blocks, and one more rotation to bring it the angle where you execute the PLL alg. Don't do this. I'm not going to ask you to learn 2-sided PLL recognition straight away; if you need to look at other sides to recognise the PLL, that's fine, but use U and U' flicks to bring other faces into view, rather than rotating. Likewise, use U moves rather than rotations to bring the case to the correct angle. (There are exceptions to this, but like what I mentioned for rotating in F2L, if you have to ask what those exceptions are, you're not ready to use them.)
The X-Cross Was planned, thanks to J Perm!


But, I think I got your point. Maybe I'll improve a bit in a couple of weeks.
Thanks!
 
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#13
These things are only useful if you want to stick to CFOP.

The thing about VHLS is that it's highly inferior to ZBLS. In your stage of F2L, doing VHLS will just add a pause and some time to your F2L which you won't save unless you can do COLL really fast and most people(not me though) agree that COLL isn't important before 15 seconds. Just go for full OLL now and when your F2L is ready for it, start doing some EO.
 
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Thread starter #16
Okay, so, I was cubing all day today and tried to practice the way you told. I'll attach one video and please tell me if this is the correct way according to what you told:


And sorry I kinda lost the scramble, but I think the scramble was :
F2 U' F2 L2 D U2 F2 R2 D L2 D R' B2 U' F' L' B' D' R' U' L

(P.S. I AM FED UP WITH THIS CUBE. MAYBE YOU'LL SEE ME WITH A MF3RS ELITE M IN A COUPLE OF DAYS AS I AM GONNA ORDER ONE!)
 
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#17
>6 seconds of inspection
You have 15 seconds, use more of it. (lol who am I to say, I often just go straight into solving after finding my first block in ~5 seconds)

>cross: r U' r' B' B' D' D' R' D' D'
You need to learn D2 double flicks (this problem shows up again later during your A perm), but also the cross solution isn't very ergonomic to begin with. Using r U' r' is good, but the B2 and D2's are bleaurgh. Try r U D2' x' L F2. (idk how to do cross well either, maybe someone else can chime in)

>second pair: R U R' [regrip] R' U' R
Get rid of the regrip for this F2L case. Start with your right thumb on the front face and use your left index for the U and U' moves.

>transition between second and third pair: [pause] y2' U' y'
This transition took around five seconds in total. That's a loooong time. Also, don't do y2 rotations!!

>third pair: L' U' L y U2 R U' R' U R U' R'
Can't really see what the other option for the third pair was (not doing a full reconstruction), so let's just look at this one. When you did your rotation to check the back face (this is actually bad and you should do this less, but since you did it already…), you should have seen that you had the corner of the back-left slot placed in the wrong orientation. This falls under the "edge misoriented in wrong slot" category, so the ideal way of handling this is to pull out the edge first, then rotate and insert. For example, R U' R' y R' U' R U R' U' R. You can also pull it out with F' U F to get rid of the rotation.

>last pair: y2' [pair and insert into front-right slot]
As above, don't do y2 rotations!!!!!! This should've been done with the back-left slot instead.

>OLL: U' (F' with left index) [regrip] U' L' U L [regrip] (F with right index) [regrip]
Like I said in the earlier post, F/F' fingertricks are very important and you need to be able to do them. Also try R' F' U' F U R for this one-look OLL case (it might be a bit faster once you can do F/F' fingertricks).

>PLL: [long recognition pause] x B' z' [A perm]
You spent around three seconds between the end of OLL and actually starting to execute the A perm. Also, for the A perms, don't match up blocks then execute the alg unless you can see it immediately. Here, you already had the PLL case aligned to the angle where you execute the alg, then you aligned the block and rotated. Don't do that. You can "combine" the rotation at the start of the A perm with a rotation to align the block if you notice it quickly enough (so it's more like rotating 120 degrees around the UBR corner), but usually it's faster to just do AUFs before and after the A perm alg.
 
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Thread starter #20
So, It's been a while, and I am still terrible =(
Please tell me again that where am I lacking.
[Sorry I lost the scramble]
 
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