cuBerBruce

Member
Great news. A fantastic insertion can be done in the premove. Let's see:

Your solution : L' U' D L' B2 D2 L B' L2 D2 B' D B L @ B' U F'
At @ insert : (B U F' U' B2 U F U' B) : +9 moves but 6 moves cancelled in the end !

So, this is the 20-move solution for reverse(???) scramble :
L' D U' L' B2 D2 L B' L2 D2 B' D B L B U F' U' B2 U

Awesome ! Many thanks.
No need for a 9-mover. Inserting an 8-mover (B2 U F' U' B2 U F U') after the B' gives the same result.

Pyjam

Sorry. I mean the backward scramble, of course.

For the insertion, I did it this way because I saw it before the B' was done.

Cubenovice

Forever Slow
Weekly comp ragequit on an 11 move F2L-1 with edges oriented...
Generator for cube state: U R2 U' R F' U2 R' U2 R U2 F R2 U R' U'

I hate it when the edges are permuted like this...
Can anyone find a good way to leave some corners?

Pyjam

Weekly comp ragequit on an 11 move F2L-1 with edges oriented...
Generator for cube state: U R2 U' R F' U2 R' U2 R U2 F R2 U R' U'

I hate it when the edges are permuted like this...
Can anyone find a good way to leave some corners?
z' y R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 U R' U' @ R U2
@ = (F' L F R F' L' F R')

Cubenovice

Forever Slow
R2 B' R' B R2 Leaves 2C2E...
I actually have R2 B' R' B on my notes page as a possible continuation :fp
I have never done 2C2E insertions so I totally looked over it.
Note to self: ALWAYS AUF to see what exactly is left...

z' y R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 U R' U' @ R U2
@ = (F' L F R F' L' F R')
Breaking up the block = win
I have never done this but definitely keep this in mind for the future

THX a lot guys, this has been a great help.

I will try my first 2C2E insertion tonight. I recently learned some 2C2E LL algs, now lets see if I can identify them in "sticker" mode.

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Mirek

Member
I actually have R2 B' R' B on my notes page as a possible continuation :fp
I have never done 2C2E insertions so I totally looked over it.
Note to self: ALWAYS AUF to see what exactly is left...

Breaking up the block = win
I have never done this but definitely keep this in mind for the future

THX a lot guys, this has been a great help.

I will try my first 2C2E insertion tonight. I recently learned some 2C2E LL algs, now lets see if I can identify them in "sticker" mode.

For anybody who wants to explore 2C2E algorithms, I have a collection of (most likely) all of such of length 13 QTM and almost all of 15 QTM. I came up with this collection 15 years ago and earlier without help of a computer. They are alphabetically sorted in their "minimal" form. Two algorithms are considered equivalent if they can be transformed into one another by mirror symmetry, inverse, or cyclic reordering (for example, UR'B is equivalent to BUR' and to RU'B' and to L'UB, and so on).
All you need is to translate notation A,B,C,D,E,F to U,R,D,L,B,F, respectively.
Some o these algoritms (not all) are very useful when doing insertions for FMC. I am not aware of any other such collection. Anybody?

Cubenovice

Forever Slow
Hi Mirek,

thank you for reminding me about your lists on the fridrich site.
There have been several posts in this thread with lists of LL algs up to 10 moves, obviously some of these are 2C2E.

Mirek

Member
Puzzlers

Here are the solutions for the two puzzlers I posted last week.

Scramble: L2 D' R B2 R' D L U2 L
Orient the cubies in less than 8 moves and leave a PLL (last layer permutation).
Solution: U F U F' U'

Thanks Rpotts for mentioning this being in Faz's signature. I didn't know about it.

Scramble: F' U2 F L' F' L U2 L' F L
Orient the cubies in less than 8 moves and leave permutation J.
Solution: U2 F U2 F U2 F2 U2 (7), finish with J
( R2 F' R2 F' R2 F2 R2 (7), would finish with Y )

Now, when you know the principle, you can solve the third one. This one is tough if you had no idea about the trick involved.
Scramble: R U2 B' R' U' R U B2 U' B' U' R'
Orient the cubies in less than 10 moves and leave a PLL.
A pseudo f2l is again not allowed here.

irontwig

Member
Not sure what you mean by "trick", but I just looked at what F2L looked easy to finish:

U' F U R U' R' U F' U'
L U F U' F' L' Leaves a nice LL too

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Cubenovice

Forever Slow
fmc.mustcube# 393
F2 L U D' F U' B L F L2 R F B R2 B' L' D2 L2 F2 U B' F R2 U2 L' U D2 B2 L2 R
forgot that the comp ends on sat night...

Human Thistlethwaite PB 31 HTM

On inverse scramble
U’ D’ B // Edge orientation (3)
U L D2 L’ // place edges, orient all but two corners (7)
// at this stage cycling three corners orients and separates all corners
// stickered the cycle and solved with random commutator, to insert later (15)
U’ L2 D’ L2 D2 B2 D’ B2 // pair up corners (23)
D’ F2 B2 U’ F2 B2 // fix bad edges leaves edge cycle and H-perm (29)
F’ B L2 B’ F U2 // leaves H-perm (33)

To finish my typical approach would be: insert corner cycle, then look for an insertion for a shorter 2+2 edge swap

But without the corner cycle solved check out the cube state at:
U’ D’ . B U L D2 L’ U’ L2 D’ L2 D2 B2 D’ B2 D’ F2 B2 U’ // off by B2, an edge cycle and a different corner cycle.
B’ F’ L2 B’ F U2 // solve edges leave 3 corners (25)
At . insert D2 B’ U2 B D2 B’ U2 B to cancel 2 moves (31)

Final solution for inverse scramble:
U’ D B’ U2 B D2 B’ U2 B2 U L D2 L’ U’ L2 D’ L2 D2 B2 D’ B2 D’ F2 B2 U’ B’ F’ L2 B’ F U2 = 31 HTM

http://tinyurl.com/algU-DB-U2BD2B

irontwig

Member
Found solutions of the same length (30 moves) to both the 1h and 10 minute linear of Fredlund's current FMC round (394). The 1h had a 2C2E insertion, while the 10 minute one had a 8 move LL.

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Cubenovice

Forever Slow
DOH!!!!

working on what just may be my first sub 30 HTA solve:
7 HTM for orienting edges and corners (7)
corner cycle to separate and prepare for 3 move pairing; to be inserted (~6)
F2 R2 B2 to pair up corners (10)
Edge cycle; to be inserted (~6)
D U2 (13)
2+2 swap; to be inserted (~6)
There are actually two edge cycles to try, leaving a different 2+2 swap
This may be the one

Then I see that my awesome orientation start is exactly the inverse of the last 7 moves of the scramble...
I can explain every single move with my typical HTA approach (because actually 10 moves with 3 cancel) but it sure takes away some of the magic.
Don't even feel like finishing right now...

kinch2002

Rapid Dash Open 2012: D2 B' U' R2 L D2 L2 U2 B2 R' F D' R2 B2 U2 R' D2 F2 (18f)
Note: not actual scramble - reconstructed it from my solution.

My 26 move solution
Premoves B L' B2 (essentially all to correct the 'Finish F2L' step)
2x2x2: D B2 R' B' L' D2 (6)
Finish F2L: U' L' B2 L U' L B' L (14) Was building a 2x2x1, but then noticed adding an extra move made another, and the last pair was just pure luck to be there. Found it without having done any premoves, so it's not quite as stupidly lucky as it seems by just solving white F2L
Edges and 1 corner: L' B' R B' R' B2 L (18) Basically just tried various OLLs that solved edges until I found this one.
Skeleton: D B2 R' B' L' D2 U' L' B2 L U' L B2 R B' R' B2 L B L' * B2 (21)
Insert L F' L' B' L F L' B at * to cancel 3 moves

Interestingly, the last 8 moves of the skeleton do a block comm, which is formed from the ending of my OLL and the premoves.
After I found the pseudo-F2L, I did B2 L' B as the premoves by mistake the first time. However, from that I got this skeleton:
2x2x2: D B2 R' B' L' D2 (6)
Finish F2L: U' L' B2 L U' L B' L (14)
Edges and 1 corner: U2 R' U2 R
Skeleton: D B2 R' B' L' D2 U' L' B2 L U' L B' L U2 R' U2 R B2 L' B (21)
This leaves the same 3 corners as the first skeleton because it is the same apart from a different way of doing the block comm at the end. Insertions didn't cancel more moves though.

Moral of that long post: I can do block comms without realising it

irontwig

Member
Nice one, found this skeleton linearly:

B R F'.R B2 U F2 R U2 B L' B U [Leaving 4C2E]

Insert at dot: D' R2:F2 L' U' L F2 R' D R' (Two moves cancel)
Insert at colon: R2 D L D' R2 D L' D' (Four moves cancel)

Results in 25 moves:
B R F' L D' R2 D L' D' F2 L' U' L F2 R' D B2 U F2 R U2 B L' B U

Pyjam

Weekly competition 2012-15 :

Scramble = L2 R2 U2 F D2 F U2 F' U2 R2 B' L' F' R' B2 L2 D' B R2 U2 B

okayama said:
Pre-scramble: L' F2

1x2x3 block: F L F' * B
2x2x3 block: R' D' L2
F2L minus 1 slot: R' U2
All but 2c2e: R2 B' R' B R2
Correction: L' F2

Insert at *: D B D' B2 L B L' B D' R D2 R' B'
(Inverse of my BLD algo, which saved me )

TOTAL : 25 HTM
I found the exact same beginning (including: F2L minus 1 slot: R' U2) but I don't know 2C2E.

I ended this way:
On reverse scramble:
Pre-moves: L2 D R B' F L' F'
F2 L2 F2 R F2 L' R : (14) F2L -1 slot

On normal scramble:
Pre-moves: R2 L F2 R' F2 L2 F2 (7)
F L F' B R' D' L2 R : (15) F2L -1 slot
B U2 B' R' U2 R : (21) edges oriented
D' R U' R U R U' R2 D U : (31) Solved

I never tried inserting this kind of permutation. Maybe soon.

okayama

Member
Weekly competition 2012-15 :

Scramble = L2 R2 U2 F D2 F U2 F' U2 R2 B' L' F' R' B2 L2 D' B R2 U2 B

okayama said:
Pre-scramble: L' F2

1x2x3 block: F L F' * B
2x2x3 block: R' D' L2
F2L minus 1 slot: R' U2
All but 2c2e: R2 B' R' B R2
Correction: L' F2

Insert at *: D B D' B2 L B L' B D' R D2 R' B'
(Inverse of my BLD algo, which saved me )

TOTAL : 26 HTM
I found the exact same beginning (including: F2L minus 1 slot: R' U2) but I don't know 2C2E.

I ended this way:
On reverse scramble:
Pre-moves: L2 D R B' F L' F'
F2 L2 F2 R F2 L' R : (14) F2L -1 slot

On normal scramble:
Pre-moves: R2 L F2 R' F2 L2 F2 (7)
F L F' B R' D' L2 R : (15) F2L -1 slot
B U2 B' R' U2 R : (21) edges oriented
D' R U' R U R U' R2 D U : (31) Solved

I never tried inserting this kind of permutation. Maybe soon.
I understand why you gave up the continuation R' U2 for F2L minus 1 slot, since it was also difficult for me to leave 3 corners after that.
The following continuation gives the skeleton for it (after 1-hour I found):

More square: B2 R' B2 R' B2 R2 B2
All but 3 corners: R B' R' B R2

But 6 cancels are needed to beat my 15 min solution.

Leaving 2c2e is rare for me, but this time that was better than leaving 3 corners.

kinch2002

Anyone want to practise 5 corner insertions?

[22:44] <+RobertY> kinch2002: B2 F2 D U L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 U L D B F L2 D' F D' B2 D2 U'
[22:44] <+RobertY> interesting FM scramble...

5 corners left: L2 D F2 D' B' D L D2 B2 D L2 F' (12)

okayama

Member
Anyone want to practise 5 corner insertions?

[22:44] <+RobertY> kinch2002: B2 F2 D U L2 U R2 D' R2 B2 U L D B F L2 D' F D' B2 D2 U'
[22:44] <+RobertY> interesting FM scramble...

5 corners left: L2 D F2 D' B' D L D2 B2 D L2 F' (12)
Too lazy to practice, so:
3 corners left: L2 D F2 D2 B2 D2 L D2 U B' U' D L2 F' (14)