#### Cubenovice

##### Forever Slow
Also starting with ZZ and then messing up EO on your last pair is a pointless exercise. Having edges oriented is really only important for the end of your solve, so doing it at the beginning and then destroying it right when you need it is an awful idea. And inserting pure flips/twists generally turns out poorly.

Well I did not seriously consider messing up EO in a ZZ solve.
But decided to post this because I stumbled over the last pair and in fiddling around found this funny "end". I didn't kow if there could be an "easy" fix.
Something like a comm or cycle that flips the cubies and could be inserted somewhere during the solve.

#### Tim Reynolds

Also starting with ZZ and then messing up EO on your last pair is a pointless exercise. Having edges oriented is really only important for the end of your solve, so doing it at the beginning and then destroying it right when you need it is an awful idea. And inserting pure flips/twists generally turns out poorly.
Fair, but if it gives something interesting, then it's not a pointless exercise. Just like how Anthony Brooks' nationals solve, solving the first cross and then switching F2Ls is pointless, except that it worked really well. If you're trying ZZ, and you get to the last pair, why wouldn't you just try everything?

Then again, that's why I don't like methods like Petrus or ZZ for FMC--working to preserve orientation in the first place doesn't seem that good of an idea to me.

#### Cride5

Yup, I rarely do EO at the beginning of an FM solve, unless there are absolutely no blockbuilding starts, either on scramble or its inverse. This for example:
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showpost.php?p=431891&postcount=376

Much better is to think about EO during the blockbuilding, so that it is largely solved when you get to the last slot. If I can get at least 3x LL edges oriented, and one pair by the time I reach F2L-1, I'm happy.

#### Cubenovice

##### Forever Slow
Why I am using ZZ for FMC:

I have done only three FMC attempts up till now and have found that I really suck at block building and then even more in continueing into a proper LL.

Practicing ZZ builds already some experience with blockbuilding, results in oriented LL edges and should have an overall lower movecount vs CFOP.

I have tried making some 2x2x3 blocks without EO beforehand but then LL completely messes me up.

I consider ZZ as a sort of transit station on my way to becoming a multi-methodist but there is so much to learn and so little time to study...

#### Stini

##### Member
I made two sub-30s this weekend at Finnish Open. Here are the scrambles and the solutions:

Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
Solution: L2 B L' R2 B' L D' F' L' F' L' D2 L' D' L2 D L' D' L D L2 B' L2 B L B' L B D2 (29 HTM)

Pre-move D2

2x2x2: L2 B L' R2 B'
2x2x3+EO: L D' F' L' F'
F2L minus slot: L' D2
F2L: L' D' L2 D L' D' L D
LL: L2 B' L2 B L B' L B

Scramble: L B2 D2 F2 L U2 L' R F2 D' L2 R D' U R2 B2 R B D R F'
(Inverse scramble: F R' D' B' R' B2 R2 U' D R' L2 D F2 R' L U2 L' F2 D2 B2 L')

Solution: R2 U2 L' D' F' B2 U' B' D2 B U B' D B2 F' U2 R U' R' U2 F2 R U' R' F U' D (27 HTM)

Pre-move D

2x2x3: R2 U2 L' D' F' B. D' B2

Now I switched to the inverse scramble (pre-moves B2 D B' F D L U2 R2)

Pseudo-F2L minus slot: D' U F' R U R' F2
Leave 3 corners: U2 R U R' U2 F

Insert B U' B' D2 B U B' D2 at the dot to cancel 3 moves.

I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.

#### Ville Seppänen

##### Member
Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
btw this is joey.

Solution (37)

2x2x2: R' U2 D' L2 D
2x2x3+cross: U2 R U' R U2 B' R
F2L + LL: y U2 R' [F B' R2 F' B] U R U2 F' U' F y R U' R' U2 F' U' F U' F' U F U2

I get bored easily. [] was an insertion.

#### deepSubDiver

##### Member
From a weekly competition in a German board. Was actually just playing around with phasing and forced a LL skip
For the second step, I am currently compiling a list of algorithms.

Code:
scramble: B' F' R2 B' L2 R2 F' L B' F L D R' B' U2 L2 B U

223    (8/8)     x2 B2 F' D' F U2 B2 R L y
eo+cp  (5/13)    R U B' R B
f2l    (14/27)   U R2 U2 R U R U R' U R2 U R U2 R2

F2 B' U' B D2 F2 R L F D L' F L D F2 D2 F D F D F' D F2 D F D2 F2[code]

#### guusrs

##### Member
I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.
Wooow, great! Congratz! Yes you are that only person at this moment!
I'll try the scrambles.......

Gus

#### guusrs

##### Member
I couldn't find any 8-move corner 3-cycle insertion in the following frame.

Scramble: L B2 F D2 F' R2 D' U B2 L U' R D F' U L R2 B2 D' B' D' L' R' F' L'
Solution: F2 R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F' D2 L' F D2 L' R' F' R U' R D B2 L' D' L B R D R' D' B' D B D (33 HTM)

1st c/e pair: D2 L'
2x2x1 block (a): F D2
2x2x1 block (b): L'
2x2x3 block: R' F' R U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: D B'
More c/e pair: B' L' D' L B
Orient edges: R D R'
All but 3 corners: D' B' D B D

Insert at the beginning: F2 (R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F) F2

Could anyone find another good insertion?

Noop, no better insertions possible!
Are you sure there are no other options after your splendid 10 moves start?
Gus

#### okayama

##### Member
I couldn't find any 8-move corner 3-cycle insertion in the following frame.

Scramble: L B2 F D2 F' R2 D' U B2 L U' R D F' U L R2 B2 D' B' D' L' R' F' L'
Solution: F2 R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F' D2 L' F D2 L' R' F' R U' R D B2 L' D' L B R D R' D' B' D B D (33 HTM)

1st c/e pair: D2 L'
2x2x1 block (a): F D2
2x2x1 block (b): L'
2x2x3 block: R' F' R U' R
F2L minus 1 slot: D B'
More c/e pair: B' L' D' L B
Orient edges: R D R'
All but 3 corners: D' B' D B D

Insert at the beginning: F2 (R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F) F2

Could anyone find another good insertion?

Noop, no better insertions possible!
Are you sure there are no other options after your splendid 10 moves start?
Gus
There might be a better way to continue, but that was the best I could do in 1-hour.

I surprised to realize that any 8-move insertion was not applicable in this frame, so just wanted to make sure whether that was really impossible. Thanks, Guus.

And congrats Teemu on remarkable records!

#### Tim Major

##### Platinum Member
Wow....

B2 D2 F B2 R2 L' D' R F U2 R B2 D B' D' B' R' B' F2 U2 R' F B R B

y' D B2 R' y' U' R F R2 U2 R2 U2 R U' L' U' L (15)

Now what
Couldn't find anything decent.
If you do y F R U R' U' R F r U R' U' r'
You get a U-perm, but I couldn't find any insertions.
15 f2l is O_O for me
Didn't take long to find that either. Any "pro" FMCers wanna have a go at sub 25? (maybe that's a bit too crazy for this start )
I am loving the 3 move block with free pairs xD
After that start, I didn't bother with premoves and whatnot. Didn't see much good with reverse scramble. I suppose NISS wouldn't be useful here? I don't really know how to use NISS so I wouldn't've found anything ^.^
Have to go, so can't check my solution or w/e.

#### okayama

##### Member
Wow....

B2 D2 F B2 R2 L' D' R F U2 R B2 D B' D' B' R' B' F2 U2 R' F B R B

y' D B2 R' y' U' R F R2 U2 R2 U2 R U' L' U' L (15)

Now what
Couldn't find anything decent.
If you do y F R U R' U' R F r U R' U' r'
You get a U-perm, but I couldn't find any insertions.
15 f2l is O_O for me
Didn't take long to find that either. Any "pro" FMCers wanna have a go at sub 25? (maybe that's a bit too crazy for this start )
I am loving the 3 move block with free pairs xD
After that start, I didn't bother with premoves and whatnot. Didn't see much good with reverse scramble. I suppose NISS wouldn't be useful here? I don't really know how to use NISS so I wouldn't've found anything ^.^
Have to go, so can't check my solution or w/e.
Here is your solve, without cube-rotation:

2x2x2 block: D R2 F'
More 2x2x1 block: U' L B L2 U2
F2L minus 1 slot: L2 * U2 L
Finish F2L: U' R' U' R

Very nice start. After the F2L, I found the following skeleton:

Orient edges: R' F' U' F U R (well-known OLL)
All but 3 corners: R' U2 R U R' U R U' (well-known OLL)

Then insert L D2 L' U L D2 L' U' at * to solve the 3 corners.

Final solution: D R2 F' U' L B L2 U2 L' D2 L' U L D2 L' U L U' R' U' F' U' F U' R U R' U R U' (30 HTM)

In addition, Cube Explorer tells us the optimal way to finish after the F2L is as follows:

More pairs: R U R'
Orient edges: B' U' R' U R B (well-known OLL)
Solve all: U2 R U2 R'

Final solution: D R2 F' U' L B L2 U2 L2 U2 L U' R' U' R2 U R' B' U' R' U R B U2 R U2 R' (27 HTM)

Maybe you can understand it.

With modification of the start, I found the following 23-move solution in 15 minutes.

Solution: D R2 F' U' R' U' L2 U R L2 B R' U' R2 B2 R' U' B' U' B2 U B U' (23 HTM)

2x2x2 block: D R2 F' (the same start as yours)
2x2x3 block: U2 L2 * U L2
Orient edges: B R' U' R2 B2 R'
F2L minus 1 slot: U2
All but 3 corners: U B' U' B2 U B U'

Insert at *: L2 U R' U' L2 U R U'

(Thanks Per for letting me know my mistake, as stated below, I hope it is now fixed)

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#### mrCage

##### Member
Sorry to be nitpicking. A start that leaves (a few) insertions should be called a skeleton and not a frame. Nevertheless i'm reallly impressed by your fewest moves skills Okayama. FM has come a long way since i first got into it (again) 4-5 yrs back.

Per

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#### Sebastien

My second official 27 solution!

Scramble: B2 L F2 R U2 B2 R U2 F2 U2 L' F2 U' F' R2 B2 R B' L' U' B2 U
Inverse: U' B2 U L B R' B2 R2 F U F2 L U2 F2 U2 R' B2 U2 R' F2 L' B2

Pseudo 2x2x3: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 (9 moves)
Extention to Pseudo-Triple-X-Cross: U' F2 L' U' L (5 moves)

switch to inverse scramble:

Cube minus corner 3-cycle: L2 F R' F R U F2 U' F (9 moves)

Solution to corner-3-cycle: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 L' U' L F' U F2 U' . R' F' R F' L2 (23 moves)

Insertion: . = U R' D' R U' R' D R (8 moves, 4 moves cancellation!)

Final Solution: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 L' U' L F' U F2 R' D' R U' R' D F' R F' L2

27 moves

#### guusrs

##### Member
My second official 27 solution!

Scramble: B2 L F2 R U2 B2 R U2 F2 U2 L' F2 U' F' R2 B2 R B' L' U' B2 U
Inverse: U' B2 U L B R' B2 R2 F U F2 L U2 F2 U2 R' B2 U2 R' F2 L' B2

Pseudo 2x2x3: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 (9 moves)
Extention to Pseudo-Triple-X-Cross: U' F2 L' U' L (5 moves)

switch to inverse scramble:

Cube minus corner 3-cycle: L2 F R' F R U F2 U' F (9 moves)

Solution to corner-3-cycle: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 L' U' L F' U F2 U' . R' F' R F' L2 (23 moves)

Insertion: . = U R' D' R U' R' D R (8 moves, 4 moves cancellation!)

Final Solution: R' D F' L R' B2 L' U2 L2 U' F2 L' U' L F' U F2 R' D' R U' R' D F' R F' L2

27 moves
Woooow, great, again 27 moves, and using NISS!
Congratz!

I will try the sramble soon....

Gus

#### guusrs

##### Member
I made two sub-30s this weekend at Finnish Open. Here are the scrambles and the solutions:

Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
Solution: L2 B L' R2 B' L D' F' L' F' L' D2 L' D' L2 D L' D' L D L2 B' L2 B L B' L B D2 (29 HTM)

Scramble: L B2 D2 F2 L U2 L' R F2 D' L2 R D' U R2 B2 R B D R F'
(Inverse scramble: F R' D' B' R' B2 R2 U' D R' L2 D F2 R' L U2 L' F2 D2 B2 L')
Solution: R2 U2 L' D' F' B2 U' B' D2 B U B' D B2 F' U2 R U' R' U2 F2 R U' R' F U' D (27 HTM)

I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.
Hi Stini,
I did 28 and 29 moves an these solves ;-)
Gus

#### okayama

##### Member
I made two sub-30s this weekend at Finnish Open. Here are the scrambles and the solutions:

Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
Solution: L2 B L' R2 B' L D' F' L' F' L' D2 L' D' L2 D L' D' L D L2 B' L2 B L B' L B D2 (29 HTM)

Scramble: L B2 D2 F2 L U2 L' R F2 D' L2 R D' U R2 B2 R B D R F'
(Inverse scramble: F R' D' B' R' B2 R2 U' D R' L2 D F2 R' L U2 L' F2 D2 B2 L')
Solution: R2 U2 L' D' F' B2 U' B' D2 B U B' D B2 F' U2 R U' R' U2 F2 R U' R' F U' D (27 HTM)

I think I'm now the only person with more than two official sub-30 solves.
Hi Stini,
I did 28 and 29 moves an these solves ;-)
Gus
I also found a 28-move solution for the first one.

Scramble: R2 U' L2 U R2 D R2 U B2 U R2 U2 L' B R2 B R B2 U' F L
Solution: L' F' L' B' L F L' B2 L' R2 B' L D F' L F D2 F D2 R' D R D R' D' R D F (28 HTM)

Pre-scramble: F

2x2x2 block: L2 * B L' R2 B' (Same as Teemu's solution)
2x2x3 block: L D L
Orient edges: L' F' L
F2L minus 1 slot: F D2 F
More 2x2x1 block: D2 R' D R
All but 3 corners: D R' D' R D
Correction: F

Insert at *: L F' L' B' L F L' B

#### Ranzha

##### Friendly, Neighbourhoodly
Scramble: L2 U2 L2 D2 U R2 U' L2 B F L2 B' L' R2 D2 U L D' L' R

Double x-cross: (y2) F' L' F R2 D' R' [6/6]
F2L: (x2 y) R U R F' U' F U2 R' U' R [10/16]
OLL: U' R' F R F' U R [7/23]
PLL: (x) L' D L' U2 L D' L' U2 L2 [9/32]

Whoa. This was a great solve.

#### satya

##### Member
pre moves+scramble:RUR'+U' D2 L R' F2 R B D' F' B2 U' D' F' R2 L2 F U B' D2 U' B' L F2 U R D' B F R' U'
2x2x3:L F2 L' F' B2 (5/5)
all corners:R2L'. D F' D'(12/17)
insert sune at . to orient corners: F' R F' R 'F2 R F2
this is a good start for me(first serious attempt at FMC),
i could not find any good insertions to solve the remaining 5 edges
or is this a good skeleton?